# Organ donation is switching to opt-out in the UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 11, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063 "2019-09-11T19:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/1 "2019-09-11T19:34:31Z")
I know we’ve debated this on the board before now, but it’s actually happening here in the UK, but I posted this in MPSIMS because I thought it’s interesting, but I don’t see the need for another argument. Next year, organ donation will switch to an opt-out model in the UK. > **[What is the opt out system?](https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/faq/what-is-the-opt-out-system/)** > > The law around organ donation is changing in England. This page answers to some of the most common questions about the coming law change regarding organ donation and the opt out system, including: How is the law changing? | What is Max and Keira's... ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/2 "2019-09-11T19:46:50Z")
Good! Says a person from a country that’s officially opt-out (extraofficially, apparently some docs still haven’t gotten the memo). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/3 "2019-09-12T00:25:02Z")
Disappointing. It should never be assumed by default that one’s life and one’s body are the property of the state. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/4 "2019-09-12T01:29:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Disappointing. It should never be assumed by default that one’s life and one’s body are the property of the state. Nobody is assuming that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/5 "2019-09-12T01:48:52Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Nobody is assuming that. That’s exactly what’s being assumed if the state is claiming the right to have you vivisected and harvested for parts unless you specifically ask that they not. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/6 "2019-09-12T12:02:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s exactly what’s being assumed if the state is claiming the right to have you vivisected and harvested for parts unless you specifically ask that they not. Your basic premise is wrong. Once you’re dead, there is neither life nor you. The part that remains after death is merely medical waste. Is it your position that the state has no interest in maintaining control over medical waste? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/7 "2019-09-12T12:19:18Z")
Good on you guys across the pond! I’ll be raising my glass to you later tonight. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/8 "2019-09-12T12:39:05Z")
As an organ recipient, I flail my arms like Kermit, yelling “YEAAHHHH!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/9 "2019-09-12T12:48:32Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > The part that remains after death is merely medical waste. The fact that what remains contains organs of interest seriously undermines the idea that it’s “waste”. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/10 "2019-09-12T12:52:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Disappointing. It should never be assumed by default that one’s life and one’s body are the property of the state. No right is absolute; one’s rights are inevitably balanced against the needs and interests of others. You have the right to free speech, provided you’re not falsely yelling “FIRE” in a crowded movie house. You have the right to practice whatever religion you want, provided it doesn’t involve human sacrifice. You have the right to own property, provided you reaffirm that right in a timely manner when it’s challenged (see [adverse possession](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession)). If you don’t do so, then it’s assumed that the property wasn’t really that important to you. You have the right to determine the post-mortem fate of your body, provided you actively affirm that right on at least one occasion while still alive. If you never thought about it while you were alive, and never bothered to assert that right before you died, then apparently it wasn’t that important to you. The OP’s link doesn’t really make it clear what the expected consequences of this opt-out system will be. It mentions 411 people died last year waiting for organs, and that about 5000 people per year die under circumstances in which their organs _could_ be harvested. It does not say how many of those 5000 people do currently donate organs, or how many of the 411 people could have been saved under an opt-out system. Anybody have more info? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/11 "2019-09-12T12:57:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Disappointing. It should never be assumed by default that one’s life and one’s body are the property of the state. Just want to make sure; are you against the Draft also? ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/12 "2019-09-12T13:04:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s exactly what’s being assumed if the state is claiming the right to have you vivisected and harvested for parts unless you specifically ask that they not. FWIIW one can only be vivisected if one is alive, if one is dead they are dissected. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/13 "2019-09-12T13:05:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s exactly what’s being assumed if the state is claiming the right to have you vivisected and harvested for parts unless you specifically ask that they not. Vivisection implies that you’re still living, which you won’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/14 "2019-09-12T13:12:09Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > The fact that what remains contains organs of interest seriously undermines the idea that it’s “waste”. What, you think waste has no value? Where have you been? There’s around thirty thousand recycling facilities that would disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/15 "2019-09-12T13:32:45Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > What, you think waste has no value? Notwithstanding recycling, waste in general has negative value. And where is the evidence that “opt-out” organ donation is in fact based on the assertion that dead bodies are waste that the state has some inherent right to control? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/16 "2019-09-12T14:03:34Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Notwithstanding recycling, waste in general has negative value. > > And where is the evidence that “opt-out” organ donation is in fact based on the assertion that dead bodies are waste that the state has some inherent right to control? Waste is not fungible, what has value to some has negative value to others. Even your household garbage can be worth something to someone, yet once it’s out at the curb it doesn’t belong to you. Once you’ve left your corpse there in a hospital bed are you claiming that it still belongs to you? There isn’t a you for it to belong to anymore. A corpse doesn’t own anything. And yes, the state does have an inherent right to control the disposition of dead bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/17 "2019-09-12T19:23:52Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > … once it’s out at the curb it doesn’t belong to you. Yes, once you actively designate trash for disposal - and indeed pay someone to haul it off - it’s not yours. > [@](#): > > Once you’ve left your corpse there in a hospital bed are you claiming that it still belongs to you? No. But in a great many human societies over the past hundred thousand year or so, it gets dealt with by those close to you: family & relatives. > [@](#): > > And yes, the state does have an inherent right to control the disposition of dead bodies. Where do you discern this legal principle? ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/18 "2019-09-12T20:15:11Z")
I’m glad. If I ever get squished out riding my bike, anyone in need is welcome to any un-squished organs. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/19 "2019-09-12T21:13:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Disappointing. It should never be assumed by default that one’s life and one’s body are the property of the state. Seems to me that’s the point of the opt-OUT part of the deal. In essence, if you’re a person who thinks that they need their full complement of organs in their dead body for some reason at burial or cremation, then they have the option to refuse (i.e. opt-out). Otherwise, it’s more of a situation where IF there’s a waiting transplant recipient that matches you after you’ve died, then your organs will be given to them. Nobody said anything about doing anything to anyone living… other than the transplant recipient. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/20 "2019-09-12T21:19:28Z")
Hm, only issue I see is people with certain medical conditions that preclude being used for parts - you can have stage 4 cancer without even knowing about it, and unless they scope every part of your body, they may not realize that that little bone graft they just harvested belonged to a person with stage 4 pancreatic cancer … oops. I am rather upset that even if my own cancer was totally cured, and never ever returns, I am now forever barred from donating anything [unless it is for dissection or test to destruction of bits and pieces] and I had to update my drivers license to reflect my nondonor status =( [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063.md?page=2)