# Organ donation is switching to opt-out in the UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 11, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063 "2019-09-11T19:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/61 "2019-09-13T18:54:10Z")
I’ve long thought that the U.S. should shift to a presumption of consent for organ donation, with an opt-out option and, say, two years’ notice ahead of time and plenty of PSAs about it. Nobody should die while waiting for an organ to become available for a life-saving transplant. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/62 "2019-09-13T19:05:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > as I am doing when I advocate against for-profit organ harvesting. Why do you hate capitalism? You some kind of socialist now? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/63 "2019-09-13T19:08:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I am not “the corpse”. I am the human individual that owns that body, and my property rights do not cease upon its expiration. Yes, they do. You’re simply wrong about the facts regarding this. If you had written “I don’t think my property rights should cease upon my death”, nobody could say you were _wrong_, but that isn’t what you said, is it? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/64 "2019-09-13T19:19:01Z")
**Smapti** : we won’t be around all that much longer. If I die before you, it’d be great if you could benefit from the shell I leave behind. If you do not want to match my offer, that’s cool, I understand. But how’s about a little flexibility on the opt-out thing? I’m sure it can be developed in a way to ensure that your choice will be respected. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/65 "2019-09-13T19:56:14Z")
I just checked how to opt out using the website linked to in the OP. Man, it _couldn’t possibly_ be simpler. Literally all you have to do is click ‘Opt Out’ and then put in your name and address. Takes less than 60 seconds. If you’re really so het up about it, you have zero excuse for failing to opt out. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/66 "2019-09-13T20:03:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Bullshit. > > 😃 No horseshit. Which made my garden flourish. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/67 "2019-09-13T20:08:36Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Switching the organ donor program from opt-in to opt-out is small potatoes. I suspect that even if everyone were to not opt out, it would still be a relatively small number of people who end up donors. It may be true that a small number of people will end up as donors. But the pool pf potential donors grows significantly. In my daughter’s behavioral economics class, she shows a chart of Europe with the percentage of people in the donor pool for each country. There are massive differences. It turns out the only factor explaining this is opt-in versus opt-out. The default position on something is very important, not just because people are lazy, but because the default is used as a signal for what society expects. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/68 "2019-09-13T20:11:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’d agree that you have the right to believe those things and to advocate for them, as I am doing when I advocate against for-profit organ harvesting. You might want to stop getting your information from bad 1980s scifi novels. And I hope for your sake that if you ever need a heart or a kidney the potential donor doesn’t share your views. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/69 "2019-09-13T21:16:47Z")
While I have some queasiness with an opt-out system, it IS a system where if you don’t want to be a donor you can declare that. You still have a choice. > [@CarnalK](#): > > \*I’m rather certain my wife won’t follow my wishes for my body to be dumped in a national park for the wolves. It may not be legal for her to do that. You could, however, donate your body to a [body farm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_farm) where not only would various scavengers be able to dine upon it and return you to nature in a very natural manner, but you might well aid both science and law enforcement forensics. One difficulty for some reading this is that at present body farms only exist in the US and Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/70 "2019-09-13T21:25:38Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > I just checked how to opt out using the website linked to in the OP. Man, it _couldn’t possibly_ be simpler. Literally all you have to do is click ‘Opt Out’ and then put in your name and address. Takes less than 60 seconds. If you’re really so het up about it, you have zero excuse for failing to opt out. It’s exactly as easy to opt in, so there’s no reason to change the status quo in a way that negatively impacts millions of people’s human rights. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/71 "2019-09-13T21:25:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > While I have some queasiness with an opt-out system, it IS a system where if you don’t want to be a donor you can declare that. You still have a choice. > It may not be legal for her to do that. > > You could, however, donate your body to a [body farm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_farm) where not only would various scavengers be able to dine upon it and return you to nature in a very natural manner, but you might well aid both science and law enforcement forensics. One difficulty for some reading this is that at present body farms only exist in the US and Australia. And, added bonus, you’d get to creep people the f::ck out: [Human Corpses Keep Moving for Over a Year After Death, Scientist Says](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/human-corpse-year-burial-scientist-1459113%3Famp%3D1) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/72 "2019-09-14T00:55:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s exactly as easy to opt in, so there’s no reason to change the status quo in a way that negatively impacts millions of people’s human rights. Changing it to opt out will make people who don’t care at all about this issue more likely to be donors, and that saves lives. Why you are so against saving the life of a living person at - maybe - the expense of a dead person? We evict dead people from their homes. You upset about that also? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/73 "2019-09-14T01:02:49Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You could, however, donate your body to a [body farm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_farm) where not only would various scavengers be able to dine upon it and return you to nature in a very natural manner, but you might well aid both science and law enforcement forensics. One difficulty for some reading this is that at present body farms only exist in the US and Australia. Screw that! I wanna be part of a wolf! It’s my right! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/74 "2019-09-14T01:06:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You can stop calling it “donation” if your idea is to compel people to “donate” their organs under pain of death for non-compliance. > > I guess “compulsory organ harvesting” doesn’t sound as good in the promos. Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there what the fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/75 "2019-09-14T01:30:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s exactly as easy to opt in, so there’s no reason to change the status quo in a way that negatively impacts millions of people’s human rights. 1. As has been repeatedly explained to you, you’ve no “right” to your organs after you die. 2. Doing it this way results in fewer people dying on transplant lists. If it’s as easy to opt out as it is to opt in, we might as well do it this way. Don’t like it? Opt out. 3. Taking this out of the realm of the theoretical and philosophical, it’s abundantly clear that if such a system was ever introduced in the US, you would opt out at the very first possible opportunity. Like, you’d probably break a land speed record rushing to your computer to opt out. And that’s fine. It’s your choice. However, since countries with ‘opt out’ programs see a rise in the supply of donor organs and a corresponding drop in waiting lists, in some small way, your odds of long term survival will improve. Given that you absolutely positively 100% definitely will opt out immediately at the first possible millisecond, why are you against this? I get the philosophical objection, but what’s your _practical_ objection? You’d be safe from having your organs donated against your will, because you’d opt out immediately, and if ever you needed an organ you’d find yourself on a shorter waiting list. So why does this upset you so much? In _practise_ it can only benefit you. 4. Just as an aside, I’ve often thought that (with some obvious common sense exceptions for kids and such) only people on the organ donor list should have the right to receive organs if they need them. Everyone else can just go die. Too bad, so sad. Should’ve opted in when you had the chance etc… I’d be interested to hear what you’d do if such a system was ever implemented in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/76 "2019-09-14T02:16:32Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > 1. Just as an aside, I’ve often thought that (with some obvious common sense exceptions for kids and such) only people on the organ donor list should have the right to receive organs if they need them. Everyone else can just go die. Too bad, so sad. Should’ve opted in when you had the chance etc… Thank you for illustrating my point. You and yours don’t want to encourage more people to voluntarily give their organs to those in need - you want to threaten them into obedience by taking away their right to medical care, so that when someone decided they’re “dead” you can chop them up and _sell_ their parts for profit to the other people you’ve blackmailed into obedience. It’s only a stone’s throw from there to you lying in your hospital bed after a minor surgery when a nurse comes in and informs you that the governor needs a new heart and you’re compatible, so the attending physician has declared you dead and they’ll be performing the extraction in ten minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/77 "2019-09-14T03:28:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I determine that it is wrong because it is not harmonious with my understanding of what the law should be. So in other words, if it doesn’t meet how YOU feel about the law, then it’s suddenly wrong? > [@](#): > > Do I not have the right to declare, via my will and my estate, the means by which my body should be disposed of? This is evidence that I, the person and the will, am legally distinct from the body I inhabit. Well, considering what you’ve said about [slavery](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17715425&postcount=447) or the [civil rights movement](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17715373#post17715373)… So according to your logic then no, having the right to your body after you die, will NOT be moral, at least not in the UK. (Can’t have your cake and eat it too, **Smapti** ) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/78 "2019-09-14T03:31:42Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > …Just as an aside, I’ve often thought that (with some obvious common sense exceptions for kids and such) only people on the organ donor list should have the right to receive organs if they need them. Everyone else can just go die. Too bad, so sad. Should’ve opted in when you had the chance etc… There is a certain poetic justice to it. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/79 "2019-09-14T03:31:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Thank you for illustrating my point. You and yours don’t want to encourage more people to voluntarily give their organs to those in need - you want to threaten them into obedience by taking away their right to medical care, so that when someone decided they’re “dead” you can chop them up and _sell_ their parts for profit to the other people you’ve blackmailed into obedience. If you’re not willing to donate your organs, why should you receive any? I note you didn’t actually _answer_ this question. You just used it as a jumping off point for a massive rant that has absolutely nothing to do with what I actually wrote. And what’s this bullshit about “selling” them? You’re literally the first person to bring money into this. That’s just some crazy projection on your part. > [@](#): > > It’s only a stone’s throw from there to you lying in your hospital bed after a minor surgery when a nurse comes in and informs you that the governor needs a new heart and you’re compatible, so the attending physician has declared you dead and they’ll be performing the extraction in ten minutes. Okay, this should be good. Kindly elucidate, step by step, precisely how you get from “Only registered donors should receive organs” to “The governor needs a new heart so now we’ve fixed your hernia we’re going to kill you”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063/80 "2019-09-14T04:22:35Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > If you’re not willing to donate your organs, why should you receive any? I note you didn’t actually _answer_ this question. You just used it as a jumping off point for a massive rant that has absolutely nothing to do with what I actually wrote. A “donation”, by definition, is not contingent on what one has done in the past. You’re basically suggesting that unless someone has personally fed and housed the homeless, they should be allowed to go hungry if they become homeless themselves. > [@](#): > > And what’s this bullshit about “selling” them? You’re literally the first person to bring money into this. That’s just some crazy projection on your part. I am not aware of medical institutions that perform organ transplants for free. Are you? > [@](#): > > Okay, this should be good. Kindly elucidate, step by step, precisely how you get from “Only registered donors should receive organs” to “The governor needs a new heart so now we’ve fixed your hernia we’re going to kill you”. Your argument for opt-out is that it increases organ availability. So, therefore, you’d have even better availability if there’s no option at all and everyone is automatically a donor no matter what. And once it’s assumed that everyone’s organs are up for grabs, well, if one person’s parts can save three lives, then it’s simply selfish of them to keep them to themselves, aren’t they? They should be encouraged to give up their own life for the needs of the many. And once that’s acceptable, well, why ask for someone’s permission before euthanizing them to save others, especially if that person is far more valuable to society? Surely President Trump’s life is more valuable than that of some blue collar schlub who’s too lazy and stubborn to realize that his organs are destined for a greater purpose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-is-switching-to-opt-out-in-the-uk/840063.md?page=5)