# Organ donation PSA **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 25, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206 "2016-01-25T21:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/41 "2016-02-04T06:44:48Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > There’s no need to make it mandatory or even a default opt-in. Just make it so that if you aren’t a donor, you don’t get put on the recipient list (assuming you have normal adult cognitive abilities). Stop calling it “donation” if you want to impose penalties on non-participants. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/42 "2016-02-04T11:03:32Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > There’s no need to make it mandatory or even a default opt-in. Just make it so that if you aren’t a donor, you don’t get put on the recipient list (assuming you have normal adult cognitive abilities). Gee, that’s really going to suck for those who can’t be on the list due to medical reasons… who will also probably be more likely to need a new organ. Well, I suppose it is a way to cut demand… ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/43 "2016-02-04T11:13:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Gee, that’s really going to suck for those who can’t be on the list due to medical reasons… who will also probably be more likely to need a new organ. Well, I suppose it is a way to cut demand… Is eligibility assessed when you volunteer as an organ donor? I figured I’d just put my name on the list and let medical authorities figure it out if the time ever came. I’ve never had to provide proof that I’m healthy enough to donate. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/44 "2016-02-04T11:16:58Z")
Well, sure, these days you just indicate you volunteer and they asses later on, but would that apply under **Dr. Strangelove’s** system? If you’ve ever had cancer you can’t be a donor, period (well, maybe corneas). As just one example of a medical exclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/45 "2016-02-04T11:26:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If you’ve ever had cancer you can’t be a donor, period (well, maybe corneas). As just one example of a medical exclusion. [American Cancer Society](http://www.cancer.org/treatment/survivorshipduringandaftertreatment/can-i-donate-my-organs): > [@](#): > > If your cancer has been actively spreading, internal organs will not be taken. But if you die after being cancer-free for a long time, your organs may be used. Other tissues, such as skin, tendons, and bone can often be used, too. Careful evaluation of any donor who has ever had cancer, including biopsies of anything unexpected, is done at the time of death. The decision about which organs or tissues can be safely used is then made by medical professionals, … ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/46 "2016-02-04T11:46:44Z")
Well, that’s changed since I last checked… which is fine. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/47 "2016-02-04T14:35:44Z")
Yeah, I’m not watching that either. \< shudder \> But I’ve also been an organ donor since I was 18 and I’ll be 48 next month. To the larger issue at hand… I think we ought to have an opt-out system here too. However, since that’ll never happen, I say if you’re so beholden to your own damn organs and choose not to donate because you’re religious / stupid / icked out / believe one bullshit story about how doctors will let you die to get them, then no organs for you from others if you need them. Simple simple. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/48 "2016-02-04T19:08:34Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > However, since that’ll never happen, I say if you’re so beholden to your own damn organs and choose not to donate because you’re religious / stupid / icked out / believe one bullshit story about how doctors will let you die to get them, then no organs for you from others if you need them. Simple simple. Sounds good. I don’t want my organs removed and I don’t want someone else’s inserted and then have to take meds for the rest of my life to not reject them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/49 "2016-02-04T19:13:15Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > However, since that’ll never happen, I say if you’re so beholden to your own damn organs and choose not to donate because you’re religious / stupid / icked out / believe one bullshit story about how doctors will let you die to get them, then no organs for you from others if you need them. Simple simple. So you’re opposed to organ donation, then. When the consequence of not donating is to be denied medical care and be abandoned to a slow and painful death, _it is no longer a donation_. But I suppose “organ extortion” doesn’t read as well, now does it? If your perverse and barbaric scheme were ever to be implemented, here’s what I’d do; I’d sign up to be an organ donor. I’d then file the necessary documents to grant power of attorney to a trusted family member, and instruct them that, in the event I am near death, _they are to object to my organs being harvested and block their harvesting by any means necessary_, because I refuse to submit to blackmail. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/50 "2016-02-04T19:19:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, sure, these days you just indicate you volunteer and they asses later on, but would that apply under **Dr. Strangelove’s** system? Yes, the intent would be to include anyone that consents, regardless of suitability. As well as any of those that cannot legally consent (children, etc.). And contrary to what **Smapti** said, it is not a punishment, since no one has _rights_ to another’s organs in the first place. You simply don’t get the benefits of the system if you consciously choose not to participate in it. Anyone that decides not to participate is in the exact same position as they’d be in if _everyone_ used the same moral calculus. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/51 "2016-02-04T19:21:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > True, objections _by the relatives_ is probably more frequent, and isn’t going to be helped by a checkbox on one’s ID. You can want to donate your organs, but if your relatives object then it won’t happen. At least not under present US law. It didn’t happen either under French law, _even though it was in theory on opt-out system_. Hospitals just wouldn’t go against the family’s will. I’ve been told that it was the case even when the deceased positively made known that he agreed to have his organ harvested, even though I don’t know if it’s true and to what extent. As for the reasons, my mother opposed the harvesting of my father’s corneas on the basis that “he had suffered enough during his life”. So, nothing rational here. She knew that I wanted my organs to be harvested, and even though she seemed to have no objection, I didn’t trust her not to nevertheless oppose it if I had died, because of the emotional turmoil and of her natural tendancy to retroactively change other people beliefs and opinions into her owns (like deciding after their death that both my father and my elder brother were believers). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/52 "2016-02-04T19:28:46Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > And contrary to what **Smapti** said, it is not a punishment, since no one has _rights_ to another’s organs in the first place. You simply don’t get the benefits of the system if you consciously choose not to participate in it. Then stop calling it “organ donation”. A donation is, by definition, offered without expectation of compensation or reward. Mandating that someone offer up their organs for harvesting in exchange for access to medical care is not a donation - it’s blackmail. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/53 "2016-02-04T19:35:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’re opposed to organ donation, then. When the consequence of not donating is to be denied medical care and be abandoned to a slow and painful death, _it is no longer a donation_. But I suppose “organ extortion” doesn’t read as well, now does it? It’s not donation, but it’s not extortion, either, since, well, you’re dead (I know that you think you might not be dead but let’s assume here that you really and truly are). And in any case, even if you see things otherwise, it’s still not extortion, rather an agreement entered willingly : “If it comes down to that, you can take my organs, and in exchange, I can get yours if you’re the one dying”. Seems a perfectly fair deal to me. And I can’t see on what basis you have a moral issue with it, unless you also think that “I’ll lend you my lawnmower when you need it if you lend me your power drill when I need it” is also blackmail and extortion. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/54 "2016-02-04T19:42:27Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It’s not donation, but it’s not extortion, either, since, well, you’re dead (I know that you think you might not be dead but let’s assume here that you really and truly are). If I’m dead because I’ve been allowed to die, or been declared “dead”, for the purpose of taking my organs, then it definitely _is_. > [@](#): > > And I can’t see on what basis you have a moral issue with it, unless you also think that “I’ll lend you my lawnmower when you need it if you lend me your power drill when I need it” is also blackmail and extortion. It is wrong to deny a person medical care that will save their life. A lawnmower is not a human heart or a liver or a kidney. If it has been donated - not stolen, not harvested, not extorted, not cajoled out of them through threats of neglectful homicide, but _donated_ - then it should be made available to any person that it can help. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/55 "2016-02-04T19:54:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > A donation is, by definition, offered without expectation of compensation or reward. That’s not true at all. Sperm donors, egg donors, and even blood donors are all compensated to some degree. Egg donors in particular fully expect to be compensated and there would be fewer were that not the case. Although “donation” _sometimes_ carries the connotation of charitable giving, that is not always the case and certainly is not here (any more than “electron donor”). You have said that you believe putting yourself on the donor list has a chance at shortening your own life. This belief is false, but let’s suppose it’s true. By allowing yourself to be a recipient, you are then shortening the lives of others in order to extend your own. There are few moral positions more contemptible than that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/56 "2016-02-04T19:59:53Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > That’s not true at all. Sperm donors, egg donors, and even blood donors are all compensated to some degree. Egg donors in particular fully expect to be compensated and there would be fewer were that not the case. So should we start paying organ donors, then? > [@](#): > > You have said that you believe putting yourself on the donor list has a chance at shortening your own life. This belief is false, but let’s suppose it’s true. By allowing yourself to be a recipient, you are then shortening the lives of others in order to extend your own. There are few moral positions more contemptible than that. They agreed to donate their organs. If their lives were shortened, it is through no action of mine - their organs would have been harvested whether I needed one or not. Much like the hamburger I had yesterday - the cow wasn’t slaughtered because I was hungry, and if I’d decided to have a salad instead, the cow would have been no less dead. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/57 "2016-02-04T20:08:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So should we start paying organ donors, then? If the logistics could be worked out and the system made safe, I would definitely support that. But I suspect that preferential treatment with regards to the recipient list would work just as well in encouraging donation. > [@Smapti](#): > > If their lives were shortened, it is through no action of mine - their organs would have been harvested whether I needed one or not. Much like the hamburger I had yesterday - the cow wasn’t slaughtered because I was hungry, and if I’d decided to have a salad instead, the cow would have been no less dead. I find it amusing that your example is exactly what I’d use to argue the opposite. Your claim is false, of course–by allowing yourself to be a recipient, you create demand. The fact that you are mixed in with millions of others doesn’t eliminate your moral obligations one iota. Cows are grown to meet demand. By eating beef, additional cows are slaughtered on your behalf. You may not be able to point to a particular cow, but it is there nevertheless. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/58 "2016-02-04T20:24:49Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > If the logistics could be worked out and the system made safe, I would definitely support that. I tentatively agree. > [@](#): > > Your claim is false, of course–by allowing yourself to be a recipient, you create demand. The fact that you are mixed in with millions of others doesn’t eliminate your moral obligations one iota. I, as an individual, cannot affect the state of the beef industry by my choices as a consumer. If I abstained from eating beef for the rest of my life, it wouldn’t amount to a single cow not being slaughtered. If _lots_ of people were to start abstaining from beef, it would have an observable effect. The extent of my consumption is too small to be measurable on a practical scale and therefore may as well be zero. Getting back to the issue of organs, it’s not possible for me to “create demand”. The demand _exists_ because of the facts of human biology. I can’t just choose to _not_ need a new kidney, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/59 "2016-02-04T22:07:30Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Sounds good. I don’t want my organs removed and I don’t want someone else’s inserted and then have to take meds for the rest of my life to not reject them. I think that’s awesome. You want to live your life a certain way, so you’re willing to back that up. Unfortunately, everyone else I’ve ever met feels entitled to an organ that they themselves would not be willing to give. They are the cowards. It’s a shame and I long for the day that at least an opt-out system will catch those folks who are too lazy to do just that. Than maybe the organ donation rate won’t be so abysmal in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206/60 "2016-02-04T22:08:31Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Unfortunately, everyone else I’ve ever met feels entitled to an organ that they themselves would not be willing to give. They are the cowards. So you’re saying that the possibility of having your organs harvested _is_ scary, then? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-psa/744206.md?page=4)