# Organ Donation Should be Automatic! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224 "2005-01-11T16:04:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/41 "2005-01-11T17:30:00Z")
> [@belladonna](#): > > Why wouldn’t the opt-out system work in this case? They know who he is, he’s a US resident and presumably had access to opt out while living so his name, which the doctors know, would show up on the no-harvest list. If a completely unidentified person, or a foreigner, or an illegal died in hospital, the default could be to assume they had opted out as a precaution against these kind of problems. People die without wills (or with out-of-date ones) every day, people let their insurance expire, and so on - even some people who feel strongly about keeping their bodies intact after death are going to forget about/put off signing up for this, especially if it’s run as some big government registry (which’ll inspire a whole other realm of paranoia for some). And then there are the slipups, of course. Hell, my local Secretary of State’s office mislaid my voter registration - along with hundreds of others - and invalidated me for the 2000 elections. Do you think people who are worried about doctors playing vulture over their organs will trust their government to handle this for them? ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/42 "2005-01-11T17:31:14Z")
I’m a to-be organ donor (if, God forbid, anything happens) and I actually have to agree with the opt-out system. You can still legally refuse on religious / spiritual / whatever grounds. It seems sensible to me. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/43 "2005-01-11T17:42:03Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > So just because a man has a drivers license, he should automatically be subjected to your scheme? Why not just let people voluntarily offer their organs for donation if that’s what they want to do? _Because most people don’t._ If you ask me, taking your organs with you to the grave is the ultimate in selfishness- you certainly have no need of them any longer, they aren’t doing you any good, but you’re willing to let someone die because you can’t bear the thought of parting with those organs you’ve grown so attached to. You’d rather give 'em to the worms. Well fuck you, I say. And I don’t accept _any_ religious objections. If your god would send you to hell for saving other people’s lives, then fuck him/her/it, too. **Liberal** , you’re turning into a scary self-righteous fuck, you know? When I’m dead (which, hopefully, will be never- but you never know), take what you want and burn the rest. I don’t need it anymore, and if I can save someone’s life with my last wish, all the better. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/44 "2005-01-11T17:46:57Z")
> [@Lightnin'](#): > > And I don’t accept _any_ religious objections. If your god would send you to hell for saving other people’s lives, then fuck him/her/it, too. _checks the forum_ You, sir (or madam), must be the new Republican Party Tolerance Advisor. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/45 "2005-01-11T17:51:16Z")
> [@Lightnin'](#): > > And I don’t accept _any_ religious objections. If your god would send you to hell for saving other people’s lives, then fuck him/her/it, too. > … snippity snip snip … > Liberal, you’re turning into a scary self-righteous fuck, you know? Do you see any hypocrisy at all stating this immediately after the “Fuck your god” schtick? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/46 "2005-01-11T17:53:06Z")
I refuse to “donate” my organs until there is meaningful reform of this corrupt system that inflates the cost of transplant surgery to [line the pockets of organ brokers, hospitals and others](http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/kat/org_01bodybrokerspart1.html): > [@](#): > > American businesses make hundreds of millions of dollars selling products crafted from donated human bodies, even though it is illegal to profit from cadaver parts, an Orange County Register investigation found. > > Cadaver skin puffs up the lips of fashion models at $1,050 a shot. Dentists use ground bone about 200,000 times a year to treat their patients. Glossy catalogs advertise 650 products made from body parts. > > A single dead body yields raw materials worth tens of thousands of dollars to businesses whose stock is traded on Wall Street and to nonprofit agencies that obtain the parts for them, records and interviews show. > > Nowhere in the country are grieving families told that their gifts fuel a fast- growing industry predicted to hit $1 billion within three years. Neither are the millions of Californians who put a pink dot on their driver’s licenses indicating their willingness to donate body parts. > > “People who donate have no idea tissue is being processed into products that per gram or per ounce are in the price range of diamonds,” said Arthur Caplan, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania’s Center for Bioethics. If my selfless “donation” generates between $14,000 and $34,000 in sales for those processing my organs, my estate had damn well get a cut of that lucre. Until you demand that Congress reform this greedy enterprise, I am afraid your loved ones will have to get by without my body parts. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/47 "2005-01-11T17:54:38Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Do you see any hypocrisy at all stating this immediately after the “Fuck your god” schtick? I’m just left wondering if there are any other parts of the Bill of Rights that Lightnin’ would like to trample on to give chronic smokers 3 more months of self-pollution. I smell a socialist… ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/48 "2005-01-11T17:57:46Z")
The one thing I’d like to add to this is that right after a person dies is no time for the ones left behind to make the decision. Right after my father passed a couple years ago, they asked my Mom if they could harvest his organs. She said something like “He’s gone through enough”, and declined. Hearing the story myself, just a day or so after he died, in my grief that sounded like an appopriate and correct answer. Of course, in the light of reason, it isn’t. I guess my point is that I bet a lot of organs are lost because the decision is made at the wrong time. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/49 "2005-01-11T17:57:57Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I smell a socialist… I swear I showered this morning! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/50 "2005-01-11T17:58:59Z")
I totally support an opt out rather than opt in scheme. Though I would like to see the organs assigned on a as needed rather than as payed for scheme. I don’t think it is right to sell an organ, any more than it would be right to sell a whole human being. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/51 "2005-01-11T18:00:09Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I’m just left wondering if there are any other parts of the Bill of Rights that Lightnin’ would like to trample on to give chronic smokers 3 more months of self-pollution. You seem unnaturally attached to this idea of the smoker donee. Did someone you know receive and then squander a lung or something to make this scenario stick in your craw so much? Because, I gotta tell you, my 10 year old cousin has never smoked a cigarette in his life, but he’s still dying because there aren’t enough organs to go around. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/52 "2005-01-11T18:02:33Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > I swear I showered this morning! 😃 Heheh. No, I meant Big Brother Lightnin’, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/53 "2005-01-11T18:04:18Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Do you see any hypocrisy at all stating this immediately after the “Fuck your god” schtick? Actually, I don’t. If you believe in a god that would want you to arrive in the hereafter with all your parts intact, rather than save a stranger’s life, then you’re worshipping the wrong god. And yeah, all those kids on the organ waiting list surely deserve to die, after all- I’m sure they did something to deserve it. Like smoking. Or drinking. Or something. Screw 'em, right? What the hell is wrong with an opt-out system? The opt-in system automatically excludes people from organ donation, unless they do something about it- and a lot of people simply can’t be bothered to do so, or forget, or whatever. An opt-out system satisfies all of the religious and personal objections. If you really think that you need those parts to rot in the ground along with the rest of your body, you can still have that. And, since there are more parts out there for the needy, it can directly benefit you, as well, should you need 'em. Is enlightened self-interest a socialistic concept? Hell, how’s this? You can only get organ donation if you, yourself, agree to donate? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/54 "2005-01-11T18:05:46Z")
“opt-out” proponents, please address this point, which I made in an earlier post: > [@Metacom](#): > > How are you going to ensure that all people know of the opt-out system and have easy access to it? … Correspondingly, the members of the lower class that do know about the opt-out system could potentially be MIGHTY pissed, and rightfully so: given that they don’t have the same access to the health care system as the recipients of their organs will, they’re going to perceive a system that takes their organs and gives it to the more socially advantaged. In the absence of socialized health care, an opt-out system would in many instances create situations where, without their consent, and without any benefit to them and their families, the bodies of the poor would be used to benefit the health of the more socially advantaged. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/55 "2005-01-11T18:06:14Z")
Get the ten year old to fill in a form to state that he lives a life that **CandidGamera** agrees with and he/she may help them after death. Carrying your judgmental shit to the grave is pretty hardcore if you ask me but hey it’s a free world and people are free to be a wankerish as they want unfortunately. BTW even as a smoker I can see the point about a good organ wasted but it’s only a x% change that your worries will come true. It’s **100%** that you won’t help **anyone** with your attitude. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/56 "2005-01-11T18:07:30Z")
> [@belladonna](#): > > You seem unnaturally attached to this idea of the smoker donee. Did someone you know receive and then squander a lung or something to make this scenario stick in your craw so much? Because, I gotta tell you, my 10 year old cousin has never smoked a cigarette in his life, but he’s still dying because there aren’t enough organs to go around. Unnaturally attached? I’ve mentioned it twice. It’s just the most simple to grasp example of someone squandering an organ transplant. Others might be livers for alcoholics, I suppose; the point is that the would-be recipient made a conscious choice to sabotage the organ they were born with in the pursuit of self-gratification - I don’t think they should be able to get off the hook of that choice just because someone who chose more wisely happened to die. Exceptions might be made if they were actually quitting or had quit the habit in question. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/57 "2005-01-11T18:08:36Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > No. Perhaps one day you can acquaint me with the thriving world of grave robbery. Wow. Are you and **CandidGamera** trying to out-stupid each other? You do understand, don’t you, that they don’t _actually_ dig up graves and and desecrate them with Satanic symbols? You do understand, don’t you, that organs are used for medical purposes and not in some greed scheme, right? You do understand, don’t you, you twit, that the net result is to save lives? Or, in your own twisted version of Libertopia, do you believe that people suffering from organ failure just brought it on themselves and deserve what they get? Last year my ex-girlfriend died due to kidney failure, through no fault of her own. Had a new kidney been available, it would have saved her life. But I guess she’s better off dead, right? 'Cause she was no better than a grave robber? Putz. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/58 "2005-01-11T18:09:34Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > In the absence of socialized health care, an opt-out system would in many instances create situations where, without their consent, and without any benefit to them and their families, the bodies of the poor would be used to benefit the health of the more socially advantaged. Well, i can’t speak for others, but my support of an opt-out system exists alongside my support for socialized health care. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/59 "2005-01-11T18:10:08Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Unnaturally attached? I’ve mentioned it twice. It’s just the most simple to grasp example of someone squandering an organ transplant. Others might be livers for alcoholics, I suppose; the point is that the would-be recipient made a conscious choice to sabotage the organ they were born with in the pursuit of self-gratification - I don’t think they should be able to get off the hook of that choice just because someone who chose more wisely happened to die. Exceptions might be made if they were actually quitting or had quit the habit in question. Maybe. But you’d prefer to help nobody rather than take the slight risk that your organ might go to someone you disapprove of? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/60 "2005-01-11T18:10:21Z")
> [@Lightnin'](#): > > What the hell is wrong with an opt-out system? The opt-in system automatically excludes people from organ donation, unless they do something about it- and a lot of people simply can’t be bothered to do so, or forget, or whatever. So, a moment ago, you wouldn’t accept any religious objections, and now you will, within the context of the opt-out system. Glad we’ve brought you around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224.md?page=4)