# Organ Donation Should be Automatic! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224 "2005-01-11T16:04:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/161 "2005-01-12T15:08:43Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > A dead person has no rights and cannot own property. What nonsense. There are well-established legal procedures for handing a dead person’s property. Actually, extending these mechanisms to the dead person’s body (i.e. letting the estate sell your organs just like it can sell your CD collection) would solve the shortage problem – few people are going to turn down easy money for their heirs. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/162 "2005-01-12T15:11:49Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > the government has no obligation to humor superstitious fantasies _ **BZZZTTT** _ > [@The United States Constitution](#): > > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/163 "2005-01-12T15:13:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Sorry to pick on you yBeayf but I think it’s struck me what I dislike about this and earlier similar statements. You’re poisoning your organs to strike back at the government for its policy but the government doesn’t give two hoots and the only people you’re harming are the potential donees and their families. It would be the only way left for me to opt out of the system. Rendering my organs unusable would go hand-in-hand with a campaign of protest, etc. I would certainly make my reasons known, and, I imagine, so would others who chose to do this. If the donees wish to increase the organ supply, have them lobby the government to change its policy. I would think that organizations representing organ recipients could get such a law as this changed in fairly short order, considering that the law would have been passed for their benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/164 "2005-01-12T15:19:09Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Deliberately poisoning your organs to prevent the possiblity of saving a life is childish and sociopathic. Not at all, given that the stated intent is to sabotage an abusive usurpation of power by government. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/165 "2005-01-12T15:30:51Z")
Personally, I don’t care what happens to my organs, BUT I know my parents do, because of their religious beliefs and past experiences. I had a sister who died and underwent a post-mortem, and I know the anguish it caused my mother when it was revealed that in some similar cases at the hospital organs were retained (eventually we found out that my sister wasn’t one of those cases). To my parents it is important that we are buried intact and as soon as possible after death, they would also have issues with organ removal while ventilation is occurring, as to them death occurs with the last breath. Because it would cause them so much distress, I would opt out if the system was changed. They are the people my death will affect most, and I want that to be as easy as possible for them. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/166 "2005-01-12T15:51:32Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > If you can invalidate a man’s consent for this purpose, just because you personally find it justifiable, what is to stop someone else from invalidating _your_ consent for a purpose _they_ champion? **Lib** , a quick question for you. The law necessarily makes (rebuttable) presumptions about what people want all the time. Since we’re focused on death, let’s consider the passing of the deceased’s property. Every state in the union has an intestacy scheme, a system that assumes the deceased wanted his property to be distributed in a certain way if the deceased did not leave a will. Typically, the property will pass to the spouse first, then to the kids, then to the deceased’s parents, then to more distant relatives. Are these schemes violative of a man’s consent under your worldview? After all, the deceased can alter the distribution by preparing a will. And if there is no will, the property’s got to get distributed _somehow_. I see practical problems with an opt-out system, problems that have been pointed out by others in this thread. But I fail to see how it invades the deceased’s ability to consent. Like an intestacy scheme, it simply makes an assumption of the deceased’s wishes when the deceased did not make his wishes known one way or the other. And it’s a plausible assumption: most people probably are willing to donate organs, but never quite get around to opting in, just as most people probably wish their property to pass to their spouses at death. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/167 "2005-01-12T17:13:21Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > _ **BZZZTTT** _ A corpse has no right to free exercise of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/168 "2005-01-12T17:16:54Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Not at all, given that the stated intent is to sabotage an abusive usurpation of power by government. Usurpation of power from _who_? Abuse of _who_? A carcass has no power to usurp. If it can be recycled to save a human life then the government has a moral imperative to see that it’s done, People need to let go of the superstion that a cadaver is a person with rights. ---
**Author:** ![Apricot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@Apricot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apricot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/169 "2005-01-12T17:57:08Z")
I am an organ donor, says so on my driver’s license. The way some posters here have laid claim to my body after death bothers me greatly. If that’s the way most people feel about a selfless gift - entitled - I am seriously rethinking my stance. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/170 "2005-01-12T18:07:18Z")
If you would honestly do that, then it was never a selfless gift to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/171 "2005-01-12T18:26:26Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > A corpse has no right to free exercise of religion. Irrelevant. Your original claim was: > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > the government has no obligation to humor superstitious fantasies I have cited irrefutable evidence that, yes, the government does have an obligation to humor superstitious fantasies. QED. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/172 "2005-01-12T18:34:55Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Usurpation of power from _who_? Abuse of _who_? Abuse and usurpation of the deceased’s estate, obviously. What you propose is no different than theft of the deceased’s goods. As I noted earlier, getting over our squeamishness and treating the corpse as part of the deceased’s estate, to be sold or given away as directed under established estate law, would solve the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/173 "2005-01-12T18:38:31Z")
> [@Apricot](#): > > I am an organ donor, says so on my driver’s license. > > The way some posters here have laid claim to my body after death bothers me greatly. If that’s the way most people feel about a selfless gift - entitled - I am seriously rethinking my stance. I hardly think that such claims by one or two posters are either reflective of most people’s opinions or worth being bothered about. ---
**Author:** ![Apricot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@Apricot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apricot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/174 "2005-01-12T18:38:45Z")
> [@belladonna](#): > > If you would honestly do that, then it was never a selfless gift to begin with. Nope. Wrong. If you feel entitled, then it’s not a selfless gift. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/175 "2005-01-12T18:45:47Z")
If you feel it’s conditional then it’s not selfless. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/176 "2005-01-12T18:51:01Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Abuse and usurpation of the deceased’s estate, obviously. What you propose is no different than theft of the deceased’s goods. > > As I noted earlier, getting over our squeamishness and treating the corpse as part of the deceased’s estate, to be sold or given away as directed under established estate law, would solve the problem. A body is not part of an estate and an estate has no rights anyway. The moral imperative to save human life trumps any obligation to humor superstious beliefs about dead bodies. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/177 "2005-01-12T19:18:06Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > If you feel it’s conditional then it’s not selfless. > [@dictionary.com](#): > > selfless - Having, exhibiting, or motivated by no concern for oneself; unselfish A conditional gift can absolutely be selfless. It’s just not unconditional. For example, I die and in my will, leave $5000 in a college-education-only trust fund for a young cousin. Selfless? Sure, I wasn’t motivated by concern for myself. Heck, by your logic, I don’t even exist anymore, so it can’t be anything _but_ selfless. Conditional? You betcha. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/178 "2005-01-12T19:45:19Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > A corpse has no right to free exercise of religion. What about attorny client privilege? Doctor/Patient confidentiality? Wills? Some things live on even after death. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/179 "2005-01-12T19:59:26Z")
Leaving aside the ethical issues of whether or not to automatically harvest organs I was wondering how we could implement such a system. I don’t believe the medical community is capable of implementing a national donor registration so that leaves us with the government. Will these be state laws or would they be federal laws? If there were federal laws passed that made organ donation the default would it be constitutional? Are there any medical doctors or bio-ethicist who are calling for automatic organ donation? Marc ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224/180 "2005-01-12T20:56:33Z")
The only real problems I see with the system as it currently stands are the next-of-kin override option and the fact that people just don’t fucking talk about it before the time comes. Yes, I believe the body that gets left behind is just a shell, but I don’t think it’s just a rotting piece of garbage. And neither do most people, which is why we have funereals. When someone dies, we don’t just wrap 'em in newspaper and dump 'em in the landfill. No, we wash them, dress them in their best clothes, fix their hair nice and put makeup on them. Because they’re people, not garbage. Dead people, yes, but people nonetheless. You think funereal rites are stupid superstitious bullshit? Fine, you’re entitled to your opinion. But that’s all it is…your _opinion_. You don’t get to dictate what other people think on the subject, or whether their opinions are valid or not. That’s just not how it works in a free country. Deal with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-donation-should-be-automatic/284224.md?page=10)