# Organ Transplant Girl Rant (not very passionate) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 23, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887 "2003-02-23T02:24:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Quasar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Quasar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Quasar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/41 "2003-02-24T01:47:25Z")
Glad to see others came in and voiced their opinions. I’ll just follow up with a few more comments of my own… First and foremost, as I’ve hopefully well established by this point, my issue here is more with the general concept of a family of an organ recipient not wanting to donate that loved ones organs. The facts surrounding this case are vague and I certainly don’t have all the details. It was just that general idea that really pissed me off. Secondly, while I have no problem with it being brought up, I would most like to point out that nowhere in my own comments did I ever bring up the issue of the family’s immigration status. That’s really not relevant to _my_ complaint. Um…actually, that’s really it. Like I said, the rant wasn’t that passionate because I’ve generally been bled of passion by the world at large. I just read something that pissed me off and I thought I’d share it with you all. I’m glad it spawned some intelligent discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/42 "2003-02-24T02:39:28Z")
> [@](#): > > So, Ruffian, you’re now agreeing that an illegal alien is, in fact, an illegal alien? Heh heh heh, yes, **Monty.** 😉 I had given it a more precise definition, along the lines of **Polycarp’s** post. It’s still a different breed than what most (or at least I) think of when they think illegal alien/undocumented immigrant, but a zebra, though not a horse, is still an equine, if the analogy makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![chrisn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@chrisn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisn)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/43 "2003-02-24T03:56:23Z")
It’s being reported here that Duke asked the family if they wanted to donate Jesica’s organs because it’s legally required to do so (apparently “required request” legislation requires hospitals reimbursed by medicare to give families the option of donating organs). According to the article above, it seems that Jesica wasn’t a suitable organ donor, but it’s a safe bet that Duke is trying to do everything by the book right now. I wouldn’t be surprised either if the family were advised _not_ to donate. Can you imagine any hospital wanting to transplant these organs into someone else even if there were only a 1% chance of their being damaged by the life support? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/44 "2003-02-24T04:24:19Z")
No, ruffian. The thing is the girl’s parents said to heck with doing things the right way and smuggled her into the country. That’s illegal and Polycarp’s posting isn’t presice, it’s an admitted speculation. Now, I am not one of those who begrudge her medical care. After all, she was here and needed care. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/45 "2003-02-24T12:34:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Now, a question for you. I am inferring from your “If someone needs help, and the resources are there to help them, then help them.” post that you think that the 5% “non-citizen” rule that UNOS has established is unreasonable. Do you think there should be any limit at all? It’s a fact that there are not even enough organs to go around for US citizens. Acknowledging that, should a US based group with ~99% donors being US citizens provide organs for anyone in the world who needs them, provided that they can get their feet on American soil (legally or otherwise)? I acknowledge that UNOS may need to establish a 5% rule for transplants, but I wouldn’t like to see them criticized if they are forced go above it, or circumvent it. It’s unfortunate that 2 sets had to be used on her, but it was incompetence that caused the first set to be rejected. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/46 "2003-02-24T15:54:32Z")
You can read more about the Santillan family’s decision not to donate Jesica’s organs at the Jesica’s Hope Chest web site (which has been getting a lot of hits, so it may be hard to reach at times): [http://www.4jhc.org](http://www.4jhc.org) ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/47 "2003-02-24T17:29:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*I once saw an episode of _ER_, where the person rejected her heart and died-so they gave it to someone else. > > Romano called it the “domino heart.” Is that possible? > > I would think that her organs would not be viable for donation-they might still be infected? Or is that stupid? \*\* The whole not a doctor issue applies here, however this is more of an immunology matter. When you reject an organ, you’re having an immune reaction where you body responds to the new tissue as an invasive pathogen. In xeno-transplantations you see RAPID destruction of the tissue. So rapid you can visibly watch the organ deteriorate. Basically you’re immune system is destroying the tissue of the organ cell by cell. So I don’t think there is any way to take a rejected organ and give it to someone else. Not only will it be damaged by the immune system, it will now have foreign proteins from the first person to recieve it as a transplant in addition to a higher chance of exposure to pathogens. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/48 "2003-02-24T17:41:15Z")
**DoctorJ** referred to that “ER” episode in an earlier post. She didn’t _reject_ the heart, she had a stroke and was brain-dead. That’s why they were able to remove it and give it to someone else. ---
**Author:** ![hyperjes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@hyperjes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hyperjes)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/49 "2003-02-25T06:28:40Z")
I live in the city where this all took place. It’s been on the news non-stop, and it broke my heart. Tonight, the local news said that the family declined to donate the organs because they were needed to do an intensive autopsy, which will be used as evidence in a law suit. (Which I believe they are justified in. If those doctors hadn’t been negligent, their little girl might have made it.) So, if all that is true, the state of the organs isn’t a factor. They might well have donated them under other circumstances. For instance, if Jesica had been given the proper organs the first time, and still died, they may have re-donated them. But in this case, they were needed to help them bring justice to those who deprived them of a chance to save their daughter.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/50 "2003-02-25T06:50:41Z")
From **romansperson** ’s link: > [@](#): > > Jesica’s mother had asked about donating Jesica’s new heart and lungs, she thought it would be a shame for them to go to waste, and about donating Jesica’s other organs. **The doctors told the Santillans and Mr. Mahoney that the heart and lungs would not be serviceable for a re-transplant and that the kidneys and liver were ruined from being on life support for too lengthy a time and the other organs and tissues were so saturated with medications and anti-rejection drugs that they also would not be serviceable for donation.** By the time that the doctors got around to telling the family that they may be able to use the corneas of Jesica’s eyes (and that was all that would have been useable) the family had been put through the worst ordeal a family could face and a very tired and emotionally worn out mother took the advice of her legal counsel to leave Jesica as is, for the pending autopsy. If that doesn’t set the record straight, I don’t know what will. This is just what I thought might have ocurred at the very beginning of this thread. Why do people insist on passing judgement before all the facts are in? ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/51 "2003-02-25T23:25:05Z")
A recent [article](http://www.msnbc.com/news/874197.asp?0bl=-0). I think the question is whether the family was told that the organs could not be used before they made their decision. Also, on their web site they said that the corneas would not have saved a life anyway. That’s true, but hardly a valid excuse for not donating them. I understand that the family is grieving, but they can’t possibly be shocked. The girl was dying. Although they may have denied that–even to themselves–they couldn’t have been truly surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Fearless\_Freap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e56c9b/32.png) [@Fearless\_Freap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fearless_Freap)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/52 "2003-02-26T04:45:32Z")
In some donation cases where a donation is crucial, some patients fall far down the recipients list because of extenuating issues. Where some may die for this reason, and the probability as argued in earlier posts of those same organs being less successful to use, a slim chance for that next recipient would look far better than no chance. IMHO, which is not based on any educated backing on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Ashkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Ashkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashkicker)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/53 "2003-02-26T19:55:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sleeping \* > \*\*I understand that the family is grieving, but they can’t possibly be shocked. The girl was dying. Although they may have denied that–even to themselves–they couldn’t have been truly surprised. \*\* Well I feel they had every right to be shocked. Imagine being a parent and knowing that your child was dying, but can be saved with a help of a transplant. So you put your child’s name on the list. You wait day in and day out, for years, to get that one phone call that could be your kid’s only chance at life. You can’t say, “I think we’ll pass on this set of organs and take the next set that comes around”. No, you have to get your things together and go then, because there might not be another chance. Then you wait for the surgery to be over only to get the bad news that there was a mistake and these organs didn’t match your daughters blood type and that she was going to die. I’d be shocked too! I am not a parent. But I can tell you if I was I would do everything in my power (legally and illegally) to save my kid. I would skateboard across this great country, swim the roughest seas, climb the highest mountain, go from sea to shining sea, and yes even cross borders illegally to save my kid. I’d make John Q look like a saint if that’s what it took.And if the only thing that I ever had to complain about was a few of my hard earned tax dollars going to fund an operation of a dying illegal child then I pray~God give me the breath that I may see another day to get up and do it again! ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/54 "2003-02-26T20:30:40Z")
> [@](#): > > And if the only thing that I ever had to complain about was a few of my hard earned tax dollars going to fund an operation of a dying illegal child … I sure hope that is not directed at me. If so, I suggest you go read my posts in this thread again. That was not what I was complaining about. If you weren’t referring to me, then I apologize for being presumptuous. ---
**Author:** ![Ashkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Ashkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashkicker)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/55 "2003-02-26T21:50:25Z")
No, that was not refering to anyone **mouthbreather**. That was just my thoughts. I accept your apology. See, we can be civil in the Pit.😃 ---
**Author:** ![aeropl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f05b48/32.png) [@aeropl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aeropl)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/56 "2003-02-26T22:57:43Z")
What does everyone think about having a law that is something like this?: -If you ever receive anything from a donor you are required by law to agree to donate any usable organs when you die. I think that’s pretty reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/57 "2003-02-27T01:38:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aeropl \* > > -If you ever receive anything from a donor you are required by law to agree to donate any usable organs when you die. > > I think that’s pretty reasonable. Ayep. I’d donate all of my useful organs when I die, regardless of whether I had received any. Why let something so valuable go to waste? Everyone should volunteer their organs postmortem. ---
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/58 "2003-02-28T13:31:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ruffian \* > > They traveled to this country to take advantage of our organ transplant programs. It was offered to them, paid for, and provided by OTHER people–not them. Had it not been others’ generosity, their daughter would _most certainly_ have died. If they sue–particularly for money–because this free six-figure+ surgery was provided to them, I’m going to get grumpy. > > Certainly disciplinary actions are required, or at least massive improvements in the checks and balances. But suing for money…grrrrrrrrrrrr. Ruffian, would you mind very much if I quoted you later today, when I continue bitching at my senator, John Edwards? (who is up for election this year, heh heh) You’ve stated this point just perfectly. I’m hoping to get hold of Lizzie Dole’s office too, as I understand she is the one who is supporting their bid to stay here. ---
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/59 "2003-02-28T13:48:40Z")
According to the news this morning, Jessica’s family decided to send her body back to Mexico, but did not accompany it, for fear of not being allowed back thru the border. The medical Amnesty program that Jesse Helms helped them get into no longer applies, and the family is well aware that the only reason that they now remain is because they want to stay. They also have full intentions of suing Duke, their atty has been gathering his ammo since last Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![pervertatoid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@pervertatoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervertatoid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887/60 "2003-03-03T22:33:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aeropl \* > \*\*What does everyone think about having a law that is something like this?: > > -If you ever receive anything from a donor you are required by law to agree to donate any usable organs when you die. > > I think that’s pretty reasonable. \*\* Honestly, I think this seems reasonable to most people, but I’d even vote for a law that said something along the lines of: “Once you die, doctors have the right to take your organs, regardless of your will.” I mean, honestly…once you’re dead, you don’t need your organs. Let someone else have 'em who could put them to good use. Of course there would have to be exceptions to this rule (if the organs were needed for an autopsy, or hey, maybe there’s a religion out there that believes that your ogans retain your soul after death, and you must be buried with them…I’m not aware of one, but I wouldn’t be surprised to hear there was such a belief.) Obviously this would need some revision, but I’d support it…just the way I feel. Correct me if I’m wrong, but…once you’re dead, the whole concept of “needs” goes out the window, right? Since you no longer need 'em, give 'em to someone who does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/organ-transplant-girl-rant-not-very-passionate/156887.md?page=2)