# Oriental -- round 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878 "2004-10-12T20:55:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/1 "2004-10-12T20:55:20Z")
Just came across this bit on Netscape News: > [@](#): > > Led by Chun Li of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the team found the dinosaur’s head in 2002 and later uncovered the rest of its body. They named it Dinocephalosaurus orientalis, meaning “terrible-headed lizard from the Orient.” That’s right, those ignorant Chinese are using the term “oriental” as if it doesn’t offend them. Given that they’re using it to name a unique dinosaur, they seem downright proud of it. Oh, how can these ignorant Chinese do such a thing, when we, their PC protectors, know so much better than them that Oriental is a term that demeans and degrades them? Don’t they realize that only through strict adherence to Politically Correct language can true freedom be found? I’m shocked, really shocked. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/2 "2004-10-12T21:00:11Z")
I guess I missed the memo that told us “Oriental” is offensive. And here all this time I’ve still been using “chink” and “gook”\*. - - No, not really. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/3 "2004-10-12T21:24:29Z")
Checking in as someone whose never heard anyone claim to be offended by “oriental”. I use it occasionally when Asian seems too vague (after all, Iranians, etc. are asian). For the record my vietnamese friend claims she’s never thought of it as offensive. After all, the word just means easterner in latin right, the same as calling somebody from the western hemisphere “westerner”, which is a pretty common usage. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/4 "2004-10-12T21:26:30Z")
so I guess what I’m asking is, if this is **oriental round 2** what was **oriental round 1** ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/5 "2004-10-12T21:27:03Z")
[From here](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=oriental) > [@](#): > > Usage Note: Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Orientalmeaning “eastern”is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable. Y’all lemme know when you start viewing the South as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs so I can start being offended by “Southerner” 😃 (Seriously, never thought ‘oriental’ was offensive) ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/6 "2004-10-12T21:29:08Z")
Not to be a party pooper, but the Latin word “orientalis” just means “of the west”, not necessarily “of the Orient”. That translation was probably the work of whoever wrote the press release in English. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/7 "2004-10-12T21:30:21Z")
> [@LaurAnge](#): > > Not to be a party pooper, but the Latin word “orientalis” just means “of the west”, not necessarily “of the Orient”. That translation was probably the work of whoever wrote the press release in English. :smack: Um, of the EAST. Not west. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/8 "2004-10-12T21:33:17Z")
I’m orien…err…asian. And I fully resent the use of “Oriental”. Anyone who uses “Oriental” to describe us japs and chinks should be tarred and beaten with smelly socks full of pissed off cats. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/9 "2004-10-12T21:42:57Z")
> [@Bruce\_Daddy](#): > > Y’all lemme know when you start viewing [a distant land] as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs… Heck, that’s how I regard all of the United States on occasion. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/10 "2004-10-12T21:48:28Z")
I was “taught” that the term **Asian** applied to people and \*\*Oriental \*\* applied to things. An Asian student walks over to the oriental rug. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/11 "2004-10-12T21:56:25Z")
Even though people find “oriental” a problem in English, the scientific names of plants and animals are in Latin (as **LaurAnge** alluded to). Rules about what’s “PC” differ from language to language: even if you can’t say “actress” in English, you still have to refer to Jane Fonda as “une actrice” in French. ---
**Author:** ![Yamirskoonir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/c0e974/32.png) [@Yamirskoonir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yamirskoonir)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/12 "2004-10-12T21:57:32Z")
My Filipino best friend always resented being called “Oriental” by her unknowing classmates…but I think she was slightly more justified in her indignation. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/13 "2004-10-12T22:03:08Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > That’s right, those ignorant Chinese are using the term “oriental” as if it doesn’t offend them. Given that they’re using it to name a unique dinosaur, they seem downright proud of it. Not that anyone here probably cares, but _D. orientalis_ was a protorosaur, not a dinosaur. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/14 "2004-10-12T22:12:05Z")
To put it in context for those who haven’t encountered the discussion before, [here’s a fairly civil discussion on the topic from way back when](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=154356&page=1&pp=50&highlight=Oriental) [and here’s an over-the-top donnybrook of a Pit thread covering the topic to some extent](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152046) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/15 "2004-10-12T22:13:10Z")
> [@Darwin's Finch](#): > > Not that anyone here probably cares, but _D. orientalis_ was a protorosaur, not a dinosaur. Damn! That changes EVERYTHING!!! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/16 "2004-10-12T22:13:32Z")
> [@Darwin's Finch](#): > > Not that anyone here probably cares, but _D. orientalis_ was a protorosaur, not a dinosaur. There you go again, trying to disrupt Pan-Dinosaurian Unity so you can keep them oppressed and extinct! Dinosaurians, Pterosaurians, Ichthyosaurians, and Protorosaurs Unite! Down with the Mammalian Imperialists! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/17 "2004-10-12T22:28:03Z")
> [@Yamirskoonir](#): > > My Filipino best friend always resented being called “Oriental” by her unknowing classmates…but I think she was slightly more justified in her indignation. :smack: And what makes the Phillipines further West than, say, China? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/18 "2004-10-12T22:34:40Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Heck, that’s how I regard all of the United States on occasion. 🙂 I can understand the despotic regimes and inscrutable culture, but romance and intrigue? Now you have me wondering what I missed, and why nobody told me 😃 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/19 "2004-10-12T22:47:37Z")
I’m sorry, but I just have to point out that now we know what Chun Li did when she retired from Interpol. Makes sense to me. Spinning Bird Kick! ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/20 "2004-10-12T22:49:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Led by Chun Li of the Chinese Academy of Sciences… I’m just glad that Chun Li has found work now. Strap a chisel to her leg, I bet she’s a dynamo at clearing away debris from the bones! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878.md?page=2)