# Oriental -- round 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878 "2004-10-12T20:55:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Yamirskoonir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/c0e974/32.png) [@Yamirskoonir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yamirskoonir)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/21 "2004-10-12T22:59:02Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > > [@Yamirskoonir](#): > > > > My Filipino best friend always resented being called “Oriental” by her unknowing classmates…but I think she was slightly more justified in her indignation. :smack: > > And what makes the Phillipines further West than, say, China? Ah, the things you learn on the Dope. You see, said best friend had always told me this pissed her off because she, her family, and all her Filipino friends considered themselves to be “Pacific Islander,” and not even remotely “Asian.” I never questioned her assertion on the matter, seeing as she was the Filipino and should be the expert on her own heritage. However, **jjimm** ’s comment made me wonder. And I Googled. And I learned from [here](http://www.hawaii.edu/cps/history-philstud.html) that after WWII > [@](#): > > …a Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies, which include the Philippines, was established. Well, gosh durn it. Who am I to believe? My friend and her immediate group here in Southern California, who choose to label themselves according to their beliefs, or the professionals who make careers of defining geographic regions and studying Filipino culture? Not to hijack a pit thread or anything, but my question is not rhetorical. I really want to know! ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/22 "2004-10-12T23:12:35Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I’m sorry, but I just have to point out that now we know what Chun Li did when she retired from Interpol. Makes sense to me. Spinning Bird Kick! What are you talking about? Last I heard, she was getting back to the life of a young, single girl. Hang on… asian, single, female, paleontologist… Chun Li is Julie from **Friends**!!! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/23 "2004-10-13T00:01:22Z")
Wake me when Julie can throw fireballs and bounce off Guile’s head. 🙂 (Oriental? Asian? Who cares?) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/24 "2004-10-13T00:23:46Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > That’s right, those ignorant Chinese are using the term “oriental” as if it doesn’t offend them. Given that they’re using it to name a unique dinosaur, they seem downright proud of it. I’ll just echo **LaurAnge** here and note that at least in the brief excerpt given, the word “oriental” never appears as a descriptor of people. In fact it never appears at all. “Orient” and the specific epithet _orientalis_ do. There has never been any problem with the words orient or oriental as place or object descriptors. It is only as people descriptors that it tends to be frowned on these days ( at least in the U.S. ). So Chinese people in China may in fact agree with **Evil Captor** , but we certainly can’t tell that from this press release. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/25 "2004-10-13T08:16:30Z")
Does the OP think he’s being ironic? Because, as pointed out several times now, the word isn’t offensive when used to describe _things_ - only people. So despite the attempt to come off as smug and condescending, the OP just comes off as ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/26 "2004-10-13T08:43:10Z")
I had never heard of anyone being offended by the term ‘Oriental’ describing people until I moved to California. Interestingly, it is only the hyper-sensitive PC whiteys that are bothered by this term here-- NOT any of the Asian people I have spoken to. And I don’t even want to hear you start in on “whitey” because, well, who gives a fuck? ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/27 "2004-10-13T08:52:14Z")
“Orientals” conjures up images of Charley Chan, Kato (Clouseau’s “little Oriental friend”) and slit eyes. Images of servility or stupidity, figures of fun or deceit. “Asians” is rather problematic in that it is used in the USA (and Canada?) to refer to Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese and Japanese, while in Britain, as has been noted here before, “Asians” are Indians, Pakistanis (and at a stretch Sri Lankans, I suppose), including those who fled East Africa in the 1970s. The real problem stems from the fact that we’re not very good at telling them apart. But they have the same problem with us, adn a few very un-PC words to call us too, I might add. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/28 "2004-10-13T09:16:55Z")
> [@Yamirskoonir](#): > > My friend and her immediate group here in Southern California, who choose to label themselves according to their beliefs, or the professionals who make careers of defining geographic regions and studying Filipino culture? Indeed SOAS (the very well respected School of _Oriental_ and African studies in London) includes [Tagalog](http://www.soas.ac.uk/departments/departmentinfo.cfm?deptid=3&type=ug) in its curriculum. Incidentally, I once wore a SOAS t-shirt when I was living in Hong Kong, and my Chinese friends were totally bemused. “What has Africa to do with us?” they asked. Indeed, they seemed quite insulted, and not in a good way. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/29 "2004-10-13T09:34:55Z")
FWIW, strangely enough, this very topic came up with a Chinese (male, if it matters) friend of mine, just this evening. In his opinion, Oriental as referring to a person of Asian descent he considers insulting, when in reference to a thing, as in Oriental rug, it’s fine, but he prefers to be called Asian. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/30 "2004-10-13T09:43:36Z")
In _Breakfast at Tiffany’s_ was Mickey Rooney’s character Asian or Oriental? :o 😃 😉 (Note: use of the :o smilie and the 😃 smilie intended as racist imagery. Use of the 😉 smilie only half-racist. 😕 ) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/31 "2004-10-13T10:53:17Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I’ll just echo **LaurAnge** here and note that at least in the brief excerpt given, the word “oriental” never appears as a descriptor of people. In fact it never appears at all. “Orient” and the specific epithet _orientalis_ do. > > There has never been any problem with the words orient or oriental as place or object descriptors. It is only as people descriptors that it tends to be frowned on these days ( at least in the U.S. ). > > So Chinese people in China may in fact agree with **Evil Captor** , but we certainly can’t tell that from this press release. > > - Tamerlane Why use the term at all, if it is in any way offensive, especially for something that carries a bit of prestige, like the name of a newly discovered species? My suspicion is that most Chinese just don’t care about the term “oriental” – and that’s just the ones who know there’s some kind of controversy about it. I honestly think the controversy was ginned up by some ivory tower types and then taken up gleefully by the PC types, the brown shirts of language as it were. Always glad to stick a thumb in THEIR eyes in when I can. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/32 "2004-10-13T11:12:56Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I honestly think the controversy was ginned up by some ivory tower types and then taken up gleefully by the PC types, the brown shirts of language as it were. Always glad to stick a thumb in THEIR eyes in when I can. In this case, it sounds like you should go ahead and return your thumb to its previous place of residence. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/33 "2004-10-13T11:19:34Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Just came across this bit on Netscape News: > Oh, how can these ignorant Chinese do such a thing, when we, their PC protectors, know so much better than them that Oriental is a term that demeans and degrades them? Don’t they realize that only through strict adherence to Politically Correct language can true freedom be found? > > I’m shocked, really shocked. Actually, it’s only in the US that the term ‘Oriental’ has become out of favor. It should not be shocking that people who actually live in the Orient, have no clue about the PC debate of Oriental versus Asian that goes on in the US of A. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/34 "2004-10-13T11:54:28Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Why use the term at all, if it is in any way offensive, especially for something that carries a bit of prestige, like the name of a newly discovered species? Because they’re NOT using the word “oriental”. The name of the species is not English. A simple misunderstanding is okay, but maintaining that the species name has any relevance to English etiquette is just willful ignorance at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/35 "2004-10-13T13:16:10Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > I was “taught” that the term **Asian** applied to people and \*\*Oriental \*\* applied to things. An Asian student walks over to the oriental rug. I’m Asian, and I like this. Oriental is so generic, you know? We are broken up. South Asians (Indians, for one) aren’t anything like Chinese! Yet they call all of us Oriental. I’m just asking for a little courtesy, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/36 "2004-10-13T14:18:49Z")
> [@Elenia28](#): > > Oriental is so generic, you know? We are broken up. South Asians (Indians, for one) aren’t anything like Chinese! Yet they call all of us Oriental. Really? Who? Where? I ask because I have never, EVER, in a long life of collecting usages, both offensive and benign, have heard an Indian person called an oriental. > [@](#): > > I’m just asking for a little courtesy, that’s all. A reasonable request, but may I counter with a request of my own, that you make an effort to not be offended by it? You see, MOST people in the USA neither know it is suddenly an offensive term nor can they fathom WHY anybody would be offended by it. Despite the Charlie Chan references made here it has NEVER been used as an insult in any case where Asian or Chinese or whatever substitution you prefer would have reduced the intended insult. “Filthy, scheming Asian” is no more or less insulting than “Filthy, scheming Oriental.” > [@Quoted by Bruce\_Daddy](#): > > The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. This is a “problem?” Since when are “exotic,” “romantic,” and “intriguing” negatives? Really, really COOL is how most people view them. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/37 "2004-10-13T15:10:13Z")
> [@Elenia28](#): > > I’m Asian, and I like this. > > Oriental is so generic, you know? We are broken up. South Asians (Indians, for one) aren’t anything like Chinese! Yet they call all of us Oriental. I’m just asking for a little courtesy, that’s all. I understand you get offended, but your reasoning seems a little odd: ‘Asian’ covers everyone from Turkey through the Central Asian republics, the Commonwealth of Independent States, Siberia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, China, Japan, Korea, and the whole of South-East Asia all the way down to East Timor. Surely that’s way more generic, if not moreso, than the specifically ‘Far Eastern’ meaning of ‘Oriental’? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/38 "2004-10-13T15:11:42Z")
“Surely that’s way more generic, if not moreso” should read “Surely that’s _just as_ generic, if not moreso”. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/39 "2004-10-13T15:13:59Z")
> [@Elenia28](#): > > I’m Asian, and I like this. > > Oriental is so generic, you know? We are broken up. South Asians (Indians, for one) aren’t anything like Chinese! Do you know karate? :running like he did in high school: ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878/40 "2004-10-13T15:22:58Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > There you go again, trying to disrupt Pan-Dinosaurian Unity so you can keep them oppressed and extinct! Dinosaurians, Pterosaurians, Ichthyosaurians, and Protorosaurs Unite! Down with the Mammalian Imperialists! {nitpick} Wouldn’t this be more accurately called Pan-Saurian Unity? Or has the PSU movement collapsed into factionalism already? Only 65 million years and already things are dissolving into familial squabbles. ☹ {/nitpick} [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oriental-round-2/268878.md?page=3)