# Origin of "attack burning ships on fire?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 25, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151 "2005-03-25T04:09:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/1 "2005-03-25T04:09:19Z")
I thought it was just the title of a song, but I’ve heard it a couple of times in other places and wonder if it’s an actual order given by someone. Anyone have any idea? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/2 "2005-03-25T04:19:48Z")
A line in Blade Runner when Roy Batty is telling Dekard all the things he has seen: “Attack ships on fire of the shoals of Orion” (IIRC) Also a song by the Revolting Cocks ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/3 "2005-03-25T04:20:52Z")
off, not of ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/4 "2005-03-25T04:45:05Z")
The line is “Attack ships on fire off the _shoulder_ of Orion”. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/5 "2005-03-25T04:45:41Z")
Well, also it was a real wooden navy tactic; fire a ship and send it into the harbor. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/6 "2005-03-25T06:40:07Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Well, also it was a real wooden navy tactic; fire a ship and send it into the harbor. I guess having a single or multiple soldiers sneak into the harbor and set fire to the ships was out of the question? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/7 "2005-03-25T06:41:14Z")
“I’ve _seen things_ you people wouldn’t even believe: Attack ships on fire, off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter at the Tenhauser gate. All these moments, lost…in time…like tears in rain. Time to die.” Classic. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/8 "2005-03-25T09:03:24Z")
I believe it was the _Tannhauser_ Gate. And the speech is utter gibberish. Still a great scene, though. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/9 "2005-03-25T10:54:01Z")
I think the OP is parsing the phrase wrongly. “Attack” is an adjective here, not a verb or command. (The) attack ships (that I saw were) on fire. ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/10 "2005-03-25T13:33:30Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I think the OP is parsing the phrase wrongly. “Attack” is an adjective here, not a verb or command. > > (The) attack ships (that I saw were) on fire. Ah, so it is. I was thinking of the aforementioned RevCo song and I’d long since lost the case with the track listing. I do have to say, a) as nice as the quote from Blade Runner was, I’m never going to even try to watch that movie again and b) I kind of like my version better. Thanks for letting me know where it came from though (as well as the actual nameof the song). ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/11 "2005-03-25T16:56:01Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > I guess having a single or multiple soldiers sneak into the harbor and set fire to the ships was out of the question? Sure, but the best results are to be had if you get one moving in the direction of the other ships, on fire. It would be very embarassing to have one burn out in the middle of the harbor, near nothing else, although maybe you’d block the harbor. Also I imagine it’s very intimidating to see a flaming hulk coming right at you. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/12 "2005-03-25T17:03:56Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Also I imagine it’s very intimidating to see a flaming hulk coming right at you. Royce Banner. Not Bruce Banner. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/13 "2005-03-25T17:12:53Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Sure, but the best results are to be had if you get one moving in the direction of the other ships, on fire. It would be very embarassing to have one burn out in the middle of the harbor, near nothing else, although maybe you’d block the harbor. > > Also I imagine it’s very intimidating to see a flaming hulk coming right at you. There’s a Hornblower novel (_Hornblower and the Atropos_ if I recall correctly) which features a scene in which a flaming “attack ship” is piloted by the French or Spanish into a British harbor at Gibraltar during Hornblower’s lieutenant examination. The description (as with all of Forrester’s prose) is very visceral and detailed, with the board captains each fearing for their (very flammible) ships, and Hornblower boarding the attack vessel and guiding it through the moorings. It’s a great read and gives you some idea of what it would be like to be in the path of an oncoming fire ship. Boarding parties were sometimes sent in to capture or sabotage ships by night, but if you have a vessel which isn’t worth prize, or not enough crew to man a prize vessel, it was just less risky to send in the ship on fire rather than risk crew and Marines on a boarding expedition. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/14 "2005-03-25T17:58:46Z")
I would just like to say: " I Are Burning Your Ship!, like I Are burning Your Dog! 😉😃 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/15 "2005-03-25T18:12:23Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Royce Banner. Not Bruce Banner. David Banner. I screwed up that joke, didn’t I? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/16 "2005-03-25T19:00:45Z")
Don’t think you did, until you tried to fix it. 🙂 AFAIK, it was Bruce in the comics and David on the show. The reason they switched it to David is because I believe they thought Bruce was too “gay”. So your joke, or the thought behind it, might be ironic or something. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/17 "2005-03-25T19:06:22Z")
Do you like our Owl? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/18 "2005-03-25T19:11:37Z")
I understood the lingo. Every good cop did. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/19 "2005-03-25T19:25:35Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > AFAIK, it was Bruce in the comics and David on the show. The reason they switched it to David is because I believe they thought Bruce was too “gay”. The Mad Magazine parody played with this, including a panel where David Banner explains the name change while in the background, a television plays footage of the 1976 Olympics and Bruce Jenner winning the Decathlon. In the TV series, “Bruce” became the character’s middle name, referenced on the fake headstone seen during the show’s opening theme, with the world believing David Banner is dead, and must continue to believe until he can control the rage within him, dun-dun-_dunnnnnn_… ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151/20 "2005-03-25T20:24:58Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > There’s a Hornblower novel (_Hornblower and the Atropos_ if I recall correctly) which features a scene in which a flaming “attack ship” is piloted by the French or Spanish into a British harbor at Gibraltar during Hornblower’s lieutenant examination. The description (as with all of Forrester’s prose) is very visceral and detailed, with the board captains each fearing for their (very flammible) ships, and Hornblower boarding the attack vessel and guiding it through the moorings. It’s a great read and gives you some idea of what it would be like to be in the path of an oncoming fire ship. > > Boarding parties were sometimes sent in to capture or sabotage ships by night, but if you have a vessel which isn’t worth prize, or not enough crew to man a prize vessel, it was just less risky to send in the ship on fire rather than risk crew and Marines on a boarding expedition. > > Stranger That’s precisely what I was thinking of; not that Forester is historical fact, but it’s a very memorable scene. He still didn’t get a free pass on his examinations, either, as I recall. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-attack-burning-ships-on-fire/296151.md?page=2)