# Origin of "beef" as meaning dispute?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-beef-as-meaning-dispute/617745>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [April 3, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-beef-as-meaning-dispute/617745 "2012-04-03T23:09:05Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 5\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\
**Post date:** [April 3, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-beef-as-meaning-dispute/617745/1 "2012-04-03T23:09:05Z")

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I can’t seem to find this anywhere. My parents used it all the time (they were from the Bronx in the 30s/40s/50s) and it’s even in our very own description of the Pit. It’s common enough, but where did it come from?

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**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-beef-as-meaning-dispute/617745/2 "2012-04-04T00:44:36Z")

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The OED dates it from 19th century US slang:

> [@OED](#):
>
> 1. intr. To complain, grumble, protest. slang (orig. U.S.).
> 
> 1888 N.Y. World 13 May (Farmer), He’ll beef an’ kick like a steer an’ let on he won’t never wear ‘em.  
> 1922 S. Lewis Babbitt v. 60 Course I wouldn’t beef about it to the fellows at the Roughnecks’ Table there.  
> 1930 P. G. Wodehouse Very Good, Jeeves iii. 74 You have beefed about Miss Wickham.

The noun form dies from 1900.

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**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-beef-as-meaning-dispute/617745/3 "2012-04-04T01:04:02Z")

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[The Word Detective](http://www.word-detective.com/052301.html) calls it “origin unknown”:

> [@](#):
>
> no one is entirely certain of how “beef” became slang for “an argument” or “a complaint,” a usage which first appeared in the U.S. during the late 1800s. It is entirely possible, however, and perhaps even likely, that “beef” in this sense is simply a sort of shorthand to describe a situation or complaint that might well escalate into a “beefy” muscular conflict

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**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-beef-as-meaning-dispute/617745/4 "2012-04-04T01:27:06Z")

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> [@RealityChuck](#):
>
> The noun form dies from 1900.

I’m not quite sure what you mean by that. If you mean it stopped being used as a noun around 1900 then a Google search on “have a beef with” contradicts that. There are plenty of contemporary examples of its use as a noun.

Perhaps I have misunderstood.

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**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-beef-as-meaning-dispute/617745/5 "2012-04-04T03:30:40Z")

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> [@RealityChuck](#):
>
> The noun form dies from 1900.

> [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#):
>
> I’m not quite sure what you mean by that. If you mean it stopped being used as a noun around 1900 then a Google search on “have a beef with” contradicts that. There are plenty of contemporary examples of its use as a noun.
> 
> Perhaps I have misunderstood.

“Dies from” is nonsensical here; I suspect he meant to say “dates from.”