# Origin of Castilian lisp **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 7, 2002, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-castilian-lisp/131129 "2002-10-07T01:39:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-castilian-lisp/131129/21 "2002-10-10T01:49:23Z")
Hmm. Something looks even more like an urban legend when a variation appears in another context: England, and the pronunciation of the Thames - attributed to George I, formerly of Hanover, Germany where our “th” sound doesn’t exist. Also quite unlikely; one source I found says the pronunciation is old French. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-castilian-lisp/131129/22 "2002-10-10T02:02:50Z")
The name of the river was always pronounced with a /t/ sound, not a /th/ sound. The real question is why the spelling was changed (about 1500, to judge by the quotations in the OED) to “Thames.” If I understand the etymology given in the OED correctly, the word comes from a Celtic source. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Fumbles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ba9def/32.png) [@Dr.Fumbles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Fumbles)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-castilian-lisp/131129/23 "2010-06-19T02:28:26Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > No facts, but a couple of UL-warning-signs (or maybe not so “U”, a lot of Castille was historically quite the sticks) in the story: > > First of all, if there were indeed a king with a speech defect that made him lisp, why would it **not** affect the “s”, and only the Z and soft C? > > Secondly, how would an _entire population_ including those in provinces where HM and his courtiers would _never be seen or heard_, universally come to affect that pronunciation? Specifically, even if the tale were true, why would they speak that way at home and teach it to their children? > > Thirdly, _saludos a Opal, ¡olé, guapa!_ > > Fourthly, there is the alternative that it’s the other way around, and the lisp was there from the start, but was _lost_ at some point as Castillian expanded to the rest of Spain and the Americas and became “Spanish”. > > Fifthly, if any of the kings of Spain would have speech problems, it would have to be one of the Hapsburgs (aka “House of Austria”; reigned from the mid-1500s to 1700), with their characteristic inherited lip/mandible deformity, reinforced thru a lot of dynastic inbreeding. MUCHISIMAS GRATHIAS! Por dethir eso. Now if people look at how I’m phonetically righting my stuff maybe they’ll see it’s not a lisp. Finally someone from mexico, south, central america or the carribean that has some common since. Eres they Puerto Rico, verdath? Finally something i can use. Hey thanks again but one question, what’s a ul warning sign? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-castilian-lisp/131129/24 "2010-06-19T03:15:13Z")
> [@Dr.Fumbles](#): > > MUCHISIMAS GRATHIAS! Por dethir eso. Now if people look at how I’m phonetically righting my stuff maybe they’ll see it’s not a lisp. Finally someone from mexico, south, central america or the carribean that has some common since. Eres they Puerto Rico, verdath? Finally something i can use. Hey thanks again but one question, what’s a ul warning sign? UL means an Urban Legend. But, “righting my stuff” should probably be “writing my stuff” unless you meant something about setting something of yours upright. I’m closing this one and the other one as they what we call “zombies”–old threads. Our generally accepted practice is to start a new thread and link to the old one. **samclem** Moderator, General Questions [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-castilian-lisp/131129.md?page=1)