# Origin of "Charlie Don't Surf"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 15, 2001, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471 "2001-10-15T10:20:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/1 "2001-10-15T10:20:03Z")
Where did this phrase come from? I know there’s a Clash song about it, and I’ve seen shirts with Manson’s face on the front and this phrase on the back, and I’ve also seen Apocalypse now shirts with this saying on them (Charlie meaning the VC in this case I guess.) Where did it come from? What does it mean? ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/2 "2001-10-15T10:41:34Z")
It comes from _Apocalypse Now_. Don’t read any further, ignore everything else that follows and just watch the movie. Ok… Without giving the story away, the movie is a retelling of _Heart of Darkness_ by Joseph Conrad, where the Charlie Sheen character is sent upriver to find a colonel (Marlon Brando) who was the Army’s best leader, but has gone too far. For Sheen’s first leg of the journey, he gets a ride courtesy of a colonel who is a good commander and is liked by his troops despite being a complete nut for surfing. (Again, without giving much away), in response to a question asked of him about an the Viet Cong, he replies “Because Charlie don’t surf!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Coil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Coil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coil)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/3 "2001-10-15T11:01:46Z")
It comes from Apocalypse Now. Lieutenant Colonel Kilgore says it during an attack on a village. I could try to explain the whole thing but it would probably be easier if you go out and rent the movie and watch the entire thing. /Andreas ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/4 "2001-10-15T11:48:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cornflakes \* > …where the Charlie Sheen character… Martin Sheen, actually. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/5 "2001-10-15T12:24:00Z")
Robert Duval, a surf affecionado, want’s a famous surfer in his command to surf on a beach under attack from the Viet Cong. When the surfer asks why Duval thinks he might even be safe, Duval replies because “Charlie don’t surf.” ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/6 "2001-10-15T12:49:01Z")
SPOILERS… Actually, the thing is, they have to take out a VC military installation to get the only good waves for miles around. The problem is, the point is impossible to take by conventional means, its really dangerous, and you can’t hold the ground for very long. One of his officers tells Duval, “We can’t surf there! That’s Charlie’s point!” To which Duval responds with the line in question. –John ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/7 "2001-10-15T16:55:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yue Han \* > \*\*SPOILERS… > > Actually, the thing is, they have to take out a VC military installation to get the only good waves for miles around. The problem is, the point is impossible to take by conventional means, its really dangerous, and you can’t hold the ground for very long. One of his officers tells Duval, “We can’t surf there! That’s Charlie’s point!” To which Duval responds with the line in question. > > –John \*\* This is the closest so far - I just want to add that the primary reason they were there was to drop Willard’s/Chief’s boat at the mouth of the river. The surfing was a ‘bonus’. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/8 "2001-10-15T18:14:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Robot Arm \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by cornflakes \* > > …where the Charlie Sheen character… > > Martin Sheen, actually. \*\* Remind me to never talk movies here. I was lucky to get the name of the movie right! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/9 "2001-10-15T21:13:03Z")
Does anyone know how this phrase became associated with Charles Manson, as in the tee-shirt mentioned in the OP? I mean sure, there ain’t much surfing in prison, but I can’t think of any reason to link Manson to the Viet Cong/_Apocalypse Now_. This question has bothered me for years, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/10 "2001-10-15T21:42:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Does anyone know how this phrase became associated with Charles Manson Maybe whoever made the shirt didn’t know who “Charlie” was, and just assumed “Charlie” was Charlie Manson? ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2001, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/11 "2001-10-15T23:17:36Z")
Call it “cross-cultural” irony: taking a familiar phrase and applying it to a different person. Manson’s in prison, so we know he can’t hang ten. For the same reason, we know we can’t apply the line Charlie Brown. We know he surfs 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/12 "2001-10-16T00:56:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lamia \* > \*\*Does anyone know how this phrase became associated with Charles Manson, as in the tee-shirt mentioned in the OP? I mean sure, there ain’t much surfing in prison, but I can’t think of any reason to link Manson to the Viet Cong/_Apocalypse Now_. > \*\* IIRC, Manson-wear (eg warhol-like printed t-shirts of his face) became popular among California surfers, and from there the phrase was juxtaposed with his image to poke fun of that. My source for this is a dimly-recalled talk by Jello Biafra. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/13 "2001-10-16T03:12:45Z")
“What do you know about surfing, Major? You’re from goddamned New Jersey!” ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/14 "2001-10-16T04:15:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cornflakes \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Robot Arm \* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > \*Originally posted by cornflakes \* > > > …where the Charlie Sheen character… > > > > Martin Sheen, actually. > > \*\*Remind me to never talk movies here. I was lucky to get the name of the movie right! \*\* …and I thought it was just a subtle reference to **Hot Shots part deux**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cantbangel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5e9695/32.png) [@cantbangel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cantbangel)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/15 "2010-05-30T17:37:44Z")
Afghanistan, that’s charlie’s point and he don’t surf, all that sand & no beach “Charlie Don’t Surf” is a line from, Apocalypse Now, this classic movie is a retelling of the short story/novella? "Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad, set in the Viet Nam War. (Marlon Brando) who was the Army’s best leader, but has gone too far. into Cambodia, and over the edge of sanity. Martin Sheen’s character is sent to find him and stop him. whatever that takes. Sheen’s first leg of the journey, he gets a ride courtesy of, Robert Duvall, a colonel, who is a good commander and is liked by his troops, despite being a complete nut for surfing—he was a pro surfer back stateside,----Duvall orders an attack on the beach, to get a chance to surf an awesome point break, and a soldier says to him something like, “Why??? That’s Charlie’s, ( the VC) Point!”, how will you be safe??!" He replies “Because Charlie Don’t Surf!!!” it is also a Clash song. and a Once truly shocking tee shirt with an image of Charles Manson. the juxtaposition of the pop culture icons struck many as an awesome combo. it was kind of a punk rock thing. tho they have parody ones with like Charlie the tuna. I’d love to have a red vintage CDS tee shirt where Manson’s face is silk screened like an Andy Warhol version of Che Guervo (sp?), which is the one I remember. that is whole 'nother load of pop culture clashes, which I will skip here. If you are young and have not seen this movie, Go Get It! Now! esp since Dennis Hopper, RIP, has died. and wait till you see the documentary which tells the true story of how the making of the movie echoed the script and fiction story! I remember I taught myself this story, since i guess I was hung over that day in college, I was very impressed. it was ironic that in the story the only people who kept their word, were the cannibals. they just went" hungry! bow bow bow" ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/16 "2010-05-30T17:55:11Z")
watch the original version too if you can. the later extended version lasted too long and ruined a lot of the feeling that made it an intense film. great music and credits at the end, play it loud and watch it big screen. ‘never get out of the boat’ ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/17 "2010-05-30T18:00:56Z")
The script for the movie was written much earlier than the movie’s debut, by John Milius. He was a surfer from California way back when. [Here’s](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:L1HhKHxekd4J:www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/09/john.milius.movies/index.html+milius+napalm+interview&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) an interview with him last year. The reason I have this is that the question about “I love the smell of napalm in the morning” authorship came up recently on my American Dialect Society mailing list. Milius wrote the line. He’s a pretty conservative guy. I know this doesn’t answer the question about the connection with Manson/t-shirts ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/18 "2010-05-30T18:00:59Z")
If you don’t want to watch the whole movie and don’t care about spoilers, [here’s the 10 minutes of Col. Kilgore, including the “Charlie don’t surf!” quote and a few other famous ones to boot.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHx2R49Bots). ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/19 "2010-05-30T18:24:15Z")
Wow. The op was from nine years ago. Apocalypse Now Redux, with the extra 49 minutes, is the best version of the film. See it if you haven’t already. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-charlie-dont-surf/87471/20 "2010-05-30T18:27:03Z")
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