# Origin of "Do Re Me..."? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 9, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721 "2014-12-09T03:03:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/21 "2014-12-10T02:32:13Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Even if the OP could have googled for the facts, the personal experiences with music study described here certainly do add value. You don’t get that from reading the Wiki article. You do, however, get it from the previous time that he asked the same exact question here before. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/22 "2014-12-10T02:50:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The way my guitar teacher taught it, the \*notes \*are “do, re, mi”, while the \*chords \*are “C, D, E”. I think that’s pretty standard in many places outside the United States. I’m not sure what the chord part means (I think you mean “notes” there), but I think you’re explaining the difference between “moveable do” and “fixed do.” In “moveable do” solfege, the “do” corresponds to the first note of a key. So, in C, it’s C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, but, say, in G, it’s G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G. Moveable do is used in Germanic countries, Commonwealth countries, and the US (according to Wikipedia.) ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/23 "2014-12-10T03:56:18Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not sure what the chord part means (I think you mean “notes” there) Chord means chord - a C chord, say, is never referred to as a “do chord”. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/24 "2014-12-10T04:04:34Z")
But c also refers to a note so the distinction isn’t clear cut. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/25 "2014-12-10T05:09:02Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > Chord means chord - a C chord, say, is never referred to as a “do chord”. I know that. I’m just not sure how it relates to solfege. What I think is meant is that in “fixed do,” “do” refers specifically and only to the note C, whereas in “moveable do,” it refers to the first note of the scale. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/26 "2014-12-10T05:26:26Z")
Look, I was never a very advanced theoretical musician, and I don’t know much about movable scales and stuff like that. I know that the notes were called do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-si, and that chords are comprised of three or more notes.For instance, if you play do, me and sol, you get a C Major chord. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/27 "2014-12-10T05:35:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Look, I was never a very advanced theoretical musician, and I don’t know much about movable scales and stuff like that. I know that the notes were called do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-si, and that chords are comprised of three or more notes.For instance, if you play do, me and sol, you get a C Major chord. That’s correct (in “fixed do.”) In the solfege I was taught, it’s whatever chord the “do” happens to be. In other words, the system I was taught it was relative. The “do” could be in any key, it’s the intervals that mattered. So, if you’re in the key of A, “do,” “mi,” and “sol” are the first, third, and fifth note of the major scale (A, C#, and E), which make an A chord. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/28 "2014-12-10T05:41:15Z")
Huh. I never knew that was an option. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/29 "2014-12-10T05:48:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Huh. I never knew that was an option. Yeah, you’ll sometimes hear singers practicing solfege starting with “C”, and doing their do-re-mis up and down, then up a half step in C#/Db, doing their do-re-mis, then D with the do-re-mis, etc., up the scale. The key itself doesn’t matter that much–it’s the intervals. Of course, this is with the “moveable do” system. You can see an example of it [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHaE5ThYAhg), starting at about 4 minutes into the video. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/30 "2014-12-10T12:25:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Huh. I never knew that was an option. It was a rude awakening for me when I took solfege in college. I grew up with stationary do and the class was moveable do. I couldn’t do it, the prof. let me stick with my system. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/31 "2014-12-10T12:27:53Z")
I never knew fixed do existed. Is hard for me to imagine how moveable do could be a problem unless you have perfect pitch or something… But then I’ve never been in that situation so I know nothing. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/32 "2014-12-10T15:26:53Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I never knew fixed do existed. Is hard for me to imagine how moveable do could be a problem unless you have perfect pitch or something… But then I’ve never been in that situation so I know nothing. Yeah, I’ve only fairly recently (within the last few years) found out that “fixed do” exists. As I’ve always known it, it was a relative thing, with the “do” representing the tonic. It seems like, according to Wikipedia, it varies by culture. To me, “fixed do” is kind of odd/difficult, as it would require perfect pitch (or some type of pitch memory) or at least a reference pitch. But I suppose if I grew up in a “fixed do” system, then “moveable do” would seem foreign to me. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/33 "2014-12-10T15:48:21Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > I don’t know but, in case you didn’t know, my grade school music teacher had hand signs/gestures for each of the notes. Were you a class of deaf children? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/34 "2014-12-10T15:53:23Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, I’ve only fairly recently (within the last few years) found out that “fixed do” exists. As I’ve always known it, it was a relative thing, with the “do” representing the tonic. It seems like, according to Wikipedia, it varies by culture. To me, “fixed do” is kind of odd/difficult, as it would require perfect pitch (or some type of pitch memory) or at least a reference pitch. For those of us using musical instruments, that’s not much of an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/35 "2014-12-10T16:02:59Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > If you study classical music, you’ll find a lot of other Italian words, like pianissimo (very quiet), fortissimo (very loud), lento (slowly), allegro (fast), and a capella (without accompaniment, in other words voice only). That’s not an accident. Italian is the international language of music, or at least used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/36 "2014-12-10T18:32:27Z")
So where does the A-B-C-… names for notes come from? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/37 "2014-12-10T18:48:20Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > So where does the A-B-C-… names for notes come from? There’s an explanation [here on Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Note#History_of_note_names). I mean, basically, it starts with the letters, of course. Now why “C” instead of “A” being the base note, I’m not entirely sure. My guess is that the Aeolian mode (which is what A-B-C-D-E-F-G comprises) was more common when the system developed, and then our common major scale (C-D-E-F-G-A-B) developed from that. But I don’t know. It’s an interesting question, and I’d be curious to what others have to say. (That article also goes into “moveable do” solfege, which does appear to be a more modern development, as in 19th & 20th century. There it says it’s primarily an American concept, but elsewhere I read that it’s Germanic and Commonwealth, as well. And the guy who was mostly credited with fully developing it, Zoltan Kodaly, was Hungarian.) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/38 "2014-12-12T10:44:13Z")
Just chiming to add how shocked I was when I moved to Mexico that they use the “fixed do” names for notes and chords (and keys, like “this song is in re menor”). For some reason it really threw me. I just couldn’t imagine, say, a “C” piano key being anything but a “C.” I mean, I wouldn’t expect it in some indigenous culture, or ancient India or whatever, but Spanish/Latin America isn’t far from the US in culture, distance, or language – most words and phrases “map” pretty cleanly between the two languages – so this really surprised me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/39 "2014-12-12T11:06:34Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > [You asked the same question (including the reference to The Sound of Music) in 2010](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=548735) and the answer is still the same. To be fair, 4 years is a long time. It could have changed since then. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721/40 "2014-12-12T15:28:51Z")
Two things: 1. Jinx, please do not start threads asking easily Googled questions, unless you have something to add to the discussion. You have been told this before, I believe. 2. Sometimes, the same topics can be discussed over and over again. New people, new opinions, old people, fresh takes on an idea. Or even people who missed the topic the first time around. So, it’s not all that alarming that we’d be talking about it again. Well, three things. 1. When you know the notes to sing, you can sing most anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-me/706721.md?page=3)