# Origin of "Do Re Mi"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 21, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782 "2010-01-21T02:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/1 "2010-01-21T02:03:47Z")
Did this pseudo-musical scale originate with the “Sound of Music”, or what? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/2 "2010-01-21T02:13:12Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Did this pseudo-musical scale originate with the “Sound of Music”, or what? I don’t think so, I learned it as a child in the 50s, which would have been before the movie, but probably after the stage show. And here Wikipedia shows it’s much older: [Solfège - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solfege) ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/3 "2010-01-21T02:13:25Z")
[Not hardly](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solf%C3%A8ge). ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/4 "2010-01-21T02:16:04Z")
Wow! I didn’t know it was a real thing in music, afterall! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/5 "2010-01-21T02:17:40Z")
From the OED > [@](#): > > The syllable now commonly used in solmization instead of UT, to denote the first note (key-note) of the scale (movable do); or in some cases the note C, the key-note of the ‘natural’ scale (fixed do). (In Tonic Solfa commonly spelt doh.) > > 1754 Dict. Arts & Sc. II. 957 Do, in music, a note of the italian scale, corresponding to ut of the common gamut. 1842 BARHAM Ingol. Leg., Netley Abbey 32 Then, you know, They’d a moveable Do, Not a fixed one as now. 1880 GROVE Dict. Mus., Do, the syllable used in Italy and England in solfaing instead of Ut..said by Fétis to have been the invention of G. B. Doni..who died 1669. Added, about _re_ > [@](#): > > In the system attributed to Guido: the second note of a hexachord; (also, in later solmization, and in the movable-doh and tonic sol-fa systems) the second note of the major scale, or the fourth note of the minor scale. Also, in the fixed-doh system: the note D (rare). > > a1450 Mus. Treat. in Speculum (1935) 10 243 Gamut hathe 3 acordis: re, mi, sol be proprechaunt; re a 12, mi a 13, sol a 15. c1475 Court of Sapience (Trin. Cambr.) 2050 Dame Musyke..taught syx syllabes, whyche we notes clepe..Whyche in an hympne thow may bryng to hepe..‘Ut queant laxis’, hit ys whyche I mene; There mayst thow fynde Ut, Re, my, fa, sol, la. ?1499 J. SKELTON Bowge of Courte sig. Bi, A balade boke before me for to laye And lerne me to synge, (Re my fa sol). c1550 Armonye of Byrdes 185 in W. C. Hazlitt Remains Early Pop. Poetry Eng. III. 194 Chaungyng their key From ut to rey. 1598 SHAKESPEARE Loves Labours Lost IV. ii. 99 Olde Mantuan, Who vnderstandeth thee not..vt re sol la mi fa. a1616 SHAKESPEARE Taming of Shrew (1623) III. i. 72 A re, to plead Hortensio’s passion. a1616 SHAKESPEARE Taming of Shrew (1623) III. i. 75 D sol re, one Cliffe, two notes haue I. 1636 E. WALLER To Mr. Henry Lawes, Let those which only warble long,..Content themselves with Ut, Re, Mi. 1672 T. PLATT Let. 27 July in H. Oldenburg Corr. (1973) IX. 185 Signor Pietro Salvetti..Invented about 4 yeares agoe a new tuneing of the ancient Lira Viol with the usual 13 ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/6 "2010-01-21T02:19:22Z")
I had the same reaction when I realized that it was as old as it was when Julie Andrews sang it. But I was in love with Julie Andrews since Mary Poppins. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/7 "2010-01-22T16:17:35Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Wow! I didn’t know it was a real thing in music, afterall! D’oh! ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/8 "2010-01-22T16:23:07Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > D’oh! [A deer! A female deer!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvph0eSb-Hg) ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/9 "2010-01-22T16:53:41Z")
Now I’m pissed, because while do, re, mi, fa, la and ti are all acceptable two letter words in Scrabble, di, ri, fi “for the sharps”, and te, le, se, ra “for the flats” are unacceptable. Have some consistency, Scrabble!! Freaking “solfege” probably isn’t even in the Scrabble dictionary! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/10 "2010-01-22T18:02:47Z")
> [@picker](#): > > [A deer! A female deer!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvph0eSb-Hg) This whole thing about the “doe, a deer” has been kicking around in music for centuries, and is known as [sogetto cavato](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soggetto_cavato)–“fished out subect,” and was done as themes for Renaissance masses with particular mastery by [Josquin.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josquin_des_Prez) One of his two famous masses with this technique is Missa Lascia Farme–“leave me alone”–from the syllables la(scia)-sol(sha)==“lascia”; far-re(fa[r])-mi(me)==farme. The other mass is in praise of his sometime employer: Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae (where the the syllables take mostly the vowels of the prince’s name: Her - re cu - ut les - re Dux - ut Fer - re ra - fa ri - mi ae - re Finally, in another art, tucked into a peroration on music in Joyce’s Finnegans Wake, is the _exact_ translation from Italian into sort-of-English, done like “doe, a dear”…, such as Do, in Italian, I give; Re… (In Italian, a king); etc. The result: I give, a king, to me, she does, alone, up there, yes see. Do re mi fa so la si do. Now you know how to speak some Italian. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/11 "2010-01-22T18:22:55Z")
> [@picker](#): > > [A deer! A female deer!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvph0eSb-Hg) I prefer [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xSBXf7dFbQ&feature=fvw) version. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/12 "2010-01-23T01:54:31Z")
My kids’ music classes have solfege, so I’ve been learning a bit about it. I knew it was a scale that named the notes, but wow there’s a lot to it. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/13 "2010-01-23T02:06:57Z")
I will just add that in French, these words, not A, B, C, … are used to name the scales. Thus in a bilingual program (in Montreal) you will see a piece in C, also described in do. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/14 "2010-01-23T02:11:05Z")
It’s mentioned in passing in **samclem** ’s cite, but the word _gamut_ (as in “run the…”) comes from the combination of _gamma_ (the lowest note in Guido d’Arrezzo’s scale) and _ut_, the original _do_. It originally referred to the entire musical scale. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-do-re-mi/525782/15 "2010-01-23T02:19:44Z")
A little bit of trivia: do re mi goes nto the naming of the Japanese anime series [Ojamajo Doremi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ojamajo_Doremi) and its protagonist Doremi Harukaze, an 8-year-old apprentice witch.