# Origin of "Dressed to the nines"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 21, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389 "2004-05-21T17:30:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![banman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8edcca/32.png) [@banman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/banman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389/1 "2004-05-21T17:30:46Z")
I swear that I saw this answered somewhere, but I can’t find it. What’s the origin of the phrase “dressed to the nines”? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389/2 "2004-05-21T18:08:06Z")
WAG: Related to [The Whole Nine Yards?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_252.html) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389/3 "2004-05-21T18:10:57Z")
I believe it has something to do with the more posh addresses in NYC being in the “9s”, but I’m sure someone will be able to expand on that. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389/4 "2004-05-21T18:37:52Z")
This expression is, according to the complete Oxford English Dictionary, recorded from 1793 in the poetry of Robert Burns: [‘Thou paints auld Nature to the nines’](http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwordorigins/nines?view=uk) “[Many theories as to the origin of this phrase. One has it that tailors used nine yards](http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/122900.html) of material to make a suit (or according to some authors a shirt). The more material you had the more status. Nine yards seems generous even for a fop. Nine has been used as a superlative in other contexts.” "[Short answer: nobody knows](http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-nin1.htm) " ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389/5 "2004-05-21T21:17:35Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Nine yards seems generous even for a fop. But then maybe not. What with cutting out the patterns I wouldn’t be surprised if the tailor ends up throwing out nearly as much material as he uses. so if the material comes in yard-wide lengths, I can imagine a tailor might use nine yards of it for a suit. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389/6 "2004-05-21T22:20:41Z")
[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya] This expression is, according to the complete Oxford English Dictionary, recorded from 1793 in the poetry of Robert Burns: [‘Thou paints auld Nature to the nines’](http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwordorigins/nines?view=uk) This was also the origin of “painting by numbers.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389/7 "2004-05-21T22:28:38Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > This was also the origin of “painting by numbers.” 🙂 So, like, in the early days of piaint by numbers technology, entire canvases were all one color (because everything was marked ‘9’)? I could just see a young Charles Manson hard at work on a “Precious Moments” paint by numbers board, “Number Nine, Number Nine, Number Nine…” ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389/8 "2004-05-22T00:23:13Z")
This came up about a year ago, and I threw in my two cents. I wasn’t disputed, so I’ll toss it out there once more. During the era of footlights, at the front of a stage, the lights not only illuminated the entire stage, but also threw the light into the first nine rows of spectators, or play watchers. If you had ‘front row seats’, you wore your very best clothing. Thus, because the rest of the audience (those in the dark) could see the front nine rows…those people were dressed to the nines. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389/9 "2004-05-22T02:50:12Z")
Well, then, let’s by all means dispute it. 🙂 From [A History of Light and Lighting](http://www.escape.ca/~williams/history/hol.htm) > [@](#): > > Garrick put footlights into the Drury Lane Theatre in 1765 and masked them from the audience with metal screens which also served a reflectors. If they already knew enough to keep the lights out of the audience by the time the phrase was first in print, then I have my doubts. BTW, “nines” was a usage Burns was fond of. [Word Origins](http://www.wordorigins.org/) says: > [@](#): > > This phrase dates to the 18th century, first appearing in 1787 in Burns’s Answers to Verses in the form 'Twad please me to the nine. The dressed is a later addition, so the nine certainly does not refer some aspect of clothing. The phrase is also often rendered up to the nines. > > The most likely explanation is that nine, in some numerological systems, connotes perfection. So that dressed to the nines means that you have achieved sartorial perfection. And similarly [The alt.usage.english FAQ](http://www.yaelf.com/aueFAQ/mifdressedtonines.shtml): > [@](#): > > This expression, meaning “very fashionably and elaborately > dressed”, is recorded from the 18th century. “The nine” or “the > nines” were used to signify “superlative” in numerous other > contexts. Theories include: 9, being the highest single-digit > number, symbolized the best; a metanalysis of Old English _to > then eyne_ “to the eyes”; and a reference to the 9 muses. But I can’t find anyone who even gives the footlight theory a mention. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389/10 "2004-05-22T20:24:12Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Well, then, let’s by all means dispute it. 🙂 > > From [A History of Light and Lighting](http://www.escape.ca/~williams/history/hol.htm) > If they already knew enough to keep the lights out of the audience by the time the phrase was first in print, then I have my doubts. > > BTW, “nines” was a usage Burns was fond of. > > [Word Origins](http://www.wordorigins.org/) says: > And similarly [The alt.usage.english FAQ](http://www.yaelf.com/aueFAQ/mifdressedtonines.shtml): > But I can’t find anyone who even gives the footlight theory a mention. Yeh, but in the list of apparent answers and guesses in this thread… Addresses Tailors Poetry Painting by numbers I still like mine the best. Maybe when the play was over, and the house lights came on…ah, your right. I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about. Good cites on your post, however. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-dressed-to-the-nines/246389/11 "2004-05-22T20:39:51Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > So, like, in the early days of piaint by numbers technology, entire canvases were all one color (because everything was marked ‘9’)? I could just see a young Charles Manson hard at work on a “Precious Moments” paint by numbers board, “Number Nine, Number Nine, Number Nine…” Heh heh heh. Nice!