# Origin of "getting the short end of the stick" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/400514 "2007-04-17T19:04:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![yIIa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/9fc348/32.png) [@yIIa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yIIa)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/400514/1 "2007-04-17T19:04:55Z")
It makes no sense. Is it a corruption of “getting the dirty end of the stick” combined with “getting the short straw”? Or something else entirely…? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/400514/2 "2007-04-17T19:10:48Z")
It comes from [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_end_of_the_stick). > [@](#): > > The split tally is a technique which became common in medieval Europe which was constantly short of money (coins) and predominantly illiterate in order to record bilateral exchange and debts. A stick (squared Hazelwood sticks were most common) was marked with a system of notches and then split lengthwise. This way both of the two halves record the same notches and each party to the transaction received one half of the marked stick as proof. Later this technique was refined in various ways and became virtually tamper proof. One of the refinements was to make the two halves of the stick of different lengths. The longer part was called stock and was given to the party which had advanced money or (other items) to the receiver. Hence the word stockholder. The debtor, on the other hand, “got the short end of the stick”. Thus, this modern expression for being the loser in any transaction Underlining is mine. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/400514/3 "2007-04-17T22:34:17Z")
I’ve always preferred “the fuzzy end of the lollipop”, myself. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/400514/4 "2007-04-18T02:23:09Z")
“The short end of the stick” as an American expression seems to have become popular in about the 1880’s-1890’s. Whether it was derived from an earlier expression, I don’t know. I’ll try to look further. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/400514/5 "2007-04-18T05:24:49Z")
While on a tour at the Tower of London the guide mentioned that this refered to medevial toliet paper. According to the guide a smooth sick was used to wipe yourself clean. As the stick got used the “handle” got smaller until the only option was to hold on to the used section. Of course he could’ve pulled the whole story out of his ass. ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/400514/6 "2007-04-18T07:15:48Z")
I’ve alwats believed **Phlosphr’s** answer as the OED mentions 2 different length sticks in relation to ‘tally stick’ but Google has a feast of answers : Candles were expensive to make, so often reeds were dipped in tallow and burned instead. When visitors came, it was the custom for guests to make their exit by the time the lights went out. Therefore, if your host didn’t want you to stay very long, he would give you a “short stick.” In the days of outhouses, often there were outhouses with multiple “holes” so that more than one person could relieve him(her)self at a time. Before the time of toilet paper, Sears catalogs and corn cobs, a stick shaped like a shoe horn was used for “hygienic cleaning.” It was rather a short spatula device with a longer handle. Well, if one person was done, he could request that the person using the adjoining hole pass the stick. Of course the person with the stick would pass it holding onto the other person by holding the long end of the stick. The recipient would therefore receive it holding the “short end of the stick.” This phrase refers to a walking stick held upside down, which does not help a walker much. Originating in the 1400s as ‘worse end of the staff’, this term was changed to the current wording only in the late 1800s. I am quite confident that the phrase “short end of the stick” refers to an old fashioned method for carrying heavy objects. (this can be visualized using a bale of hay) a long stick is inserted through ropes or cords wrapped around the object and two (or more) people carry the object together. If the load is off-center a disproportionate burden is placed on the person(s) on the “short end of the stick”. ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/400514/7 "2007-04-18T09:06:36Z")
[QUOTE=Ponster] Candles were expensive to make, so often reeds were dipped in tallow and burned instead. When visitors came, it was the custom for guests to make their exit by the time the lights went out. Therefore, if your host didn’t want you to stay very long, he would give you a “short stick.” [/QUOTE] “You should never hold a candle if you don’t know where it’s been.” \* Ian Drury\* ---
**Author:** ![yIIa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/9fc348/32.png) [@yIIa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yIIa)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/400514/8 "2007-04-20T21:26:39Z")
The Wikipedia one sounded passible until we got to the one about the bail of hay. I can instantly see the term being applied there. The person with their end closer to the rope (fulcrum, center of gravity), the more weight would shift to him. This gives the primary sense of being unfair. I might go to Wikipedia and add that to their section. Have you ever done that? I’ve edited a few items there now and feel like a regular Samuel Johnson. ---
**Author:** ![yIIa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/9fc348/32.png) [@yIIa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yIIa)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/400514/9 "2007-04-20T21:30:33Z")
Of course I meant the bail on a bale. (Damn spell checkers and [strike]there[/strike] the’re homophones)