# Origin of "gone south"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 28, 2002, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-gone-south/100606 "2002-03-28T19:06:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-gone-south/100606/1 "2002-03-28T19:06:07Z")
In the thread “Christians - What EXACTLY is ‘Original Sin’?” (GD) **happyheathen** wonders about the origin of the expression “gone south”. I did a little research and found [**this**](http://www.word-detective.com/current.html) > [@](#): > > Dear Word Detective: When my first computer broke many years ago, the technician told me it had “gone south.” I have since heard “gone south” applied to all kinds of mechanical or project failures, and each time I have asked the speaker where that phrase came from. Nobody knows. The best guess I’ve heard is that it’s from the seasonal migration of birds, that the working of the thing in question has simply “flown away.” That seems like a stretch to me. How would you explain it? – David M., via the internet. The reply to this question rambles on to the meaning of “gone south”, but never really gives an alternative to the idea that would conflict with the migration of birds, except the idea of fleeing to Mexico to avoid the law, which IMHO is not very plausible. What do y’all think? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-gone-south/100606/2 "2002-03-28T21:25:47Z")
A map, properly oriented, shows north at the top and south at the bottom. A profit and loss chart shows the positive numbers at the top and the negative numbers at the bottom. A loss is shown by a move in the “southerly” direction. Profits have “gone south.” ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-gone-south/100606/3 "2002-03-29T03:48:09Z")
**dropzone’s** explanation sounds reasonable. Q: does this phrase have exclusive USA origins? Dopers: have you heard/used this phrase outside the US? I’m thinking ‘sold down the river’ - a ref to US slavery ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-gone-south/100606/4 "2002-03-29T04:28:45Z")
We either did this here in the last month or so, or over at Dave Wilton’s neat etymology board, [http://www.wordorigins.org/home.htm](http://www.wordorigins.org/home.htm) For my money, Evan just plain _fluffed_ his answer, in The Word Detective. Perhaps he was trying too hard to stick with **gone South** rather than **to go South** or one of its variants. Mathews cites **sold South** from _Uncle Toms’ Cabin_ in 1852. He also cites a journal from 1902, which was referring to 1746 which said in effect that Indians spirits would “go southward” when they died. Supporting this last cite, there is an 1894 cite which says > [@](#): > > The Dakota tribes believe that the soul, driven out of the body, journeys off to the south, and ‘to go south’ is, among the Sioux, the favorite euphemism for death. If this is incorrect, Sioux Me. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-gone-south/100606/5 "2002-03-29T05:37:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by happyheathen \* > **dropzone’s explanation sounds reasonable.** It does, doesn’t it? Unfortunately, Cecil would rip me a new anal aperture for it because I made it up. No cites. No research. It just sounded reasonable and obvious. Gee, I hope it doesn’t end up in one of his books! ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-gone-south/100606/6 "2002-03-29T06:50:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\* > It does, doesn’t it? Unfortunately, Cecil would rip me a new anal aperture for it because I made it up. No cites. No research. It just sounded reasonable and obvious. > > Gee, I hope it doesn’t end up in one of his books! \*\* So now I get nailed for being polite? I should have said “Dropzone performs yet another act of anal extraction”? Point out that Chinese maps are oriented SOUTH up? damn, try to be nice…