# Origin of grading system skipping e? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 19, 2006, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969 "2006-03-19T04:11:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cmurdough](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@cmurdough](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmurdough)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/1 "2006-03-19T04:11:50Z")
How did the current grading system get started? I understand that “f” conveniently stands for “fail,” but is that the only reason “e” gets skipped? ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/2 "2006-03-19T04:42:22Z")
Back in the Middle Ages when I was in school, there were the standard grades, like for Math, Science, that were greaded A, B, C, D, or F, and then there was intangibles such as Citizenship, Social Skills, and others I can’t remember right now that were graded E for Excellent, S for Satisfactory, or U for Unsatisfactoy. So my answer would be that E stands for Excellent. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/3 "2006-03-19T05:48:11Z")
Standard grades here are High Distinction (HD), Distinction (D), Credit (Cr), Pass § and Fail (F). ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/4 "2006-03-19T06:15:33Z")
We had an “E” instead of “F” in my elementary school. Probably to take away the sting of the F, I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/5 "2006-03-19T06:57:15Z")
My county’s school system used A, B, C, D, & E in all its schools. There’s perfect logic to it - A, B, C, and D don’t stand for any words, so there’s no reason the letter for a failing grade has to either. I always figured systems that used F just couldn’t resist “F = Fail,” but I didn’t see much sense in it. I’m sorry I don’t know when and where it started, but I’m pretty confident that that’s the only reason E gets skipped in some systems. ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/6 "2006-03-19T07:04:49Z")
Aw, heck, why use even E? Just do like my school does: A, B, C, D\*. But then, we have the D\*, so if for some reason you don’t make it through the whole two years here (and that _never_ happens) your old normal high school can accept it as a D rather than an F. So, it wouldn’t really make sense for normal high schools to have it. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/7 "2006-03-19T09:05:54Z")
WAG: There is a qualitative difference between a D and a Fail which there is not with the other letters. A - D all lie on the same continuum wheras a person who fails must retake the course or suffer some similar sort of penalty. ---
**Author:** ![blueslipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@blueslipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blueslipper)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/8 "2006-03-19T11:17:55Z")
> [@cmurdough](#): > > How did the current grading system get started? I understand that “f” conveniently stands for “fail,” but is that the only reason “e” gets skipped? I have always presumed this was a strange American habit. I find it odd that a ‘D’ can be a pass. The system in New Zealand was A B C were passes and D E were fails. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/9 "2006-03-19T11:40:42Z")
Here in Israel grades go from 4 to 10, with 4 & 5 failing and 6-10 passing. The numerical scores have commonly accepted names: 10 - Excellent 9 - Very Good 8 - Good 7 - Almost Good 6 - Sufficient 5 - Almost Sufficient 4 - Insufficient. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/10 "2006-03-19T12:01:45Z")
> [@blueslipper](#): > > I have always presumed this was a strange American habit. I find it odd that a ‘D’ can be a pass. > The system in New Zealand was A B C were passes and D E were fails. IIRC, my school sometimes used D to represent “passed, but no credit will be given due to poor performance.” I’ve always assumed that the grading scale was from A to D, with F being off the scale (not gradeable). “Fail” starts with “F,” making “F” a convenient symbol. Any resemblance to a scale from A to F is purely coincidental. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/11 "2006-03-19T16:40:15Z")
In Belgium they have an E grade between F and D (I learned this as the instructor was trying to explain that my D wasn’t really all that bad). ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/12 "2006-03-19T16:51:55Z")
> [@cmurdough](#): > > How did the current grading system get started? I understand that “f” conveniently stands for “fail,” but is that the only reason “e” gets skipped? It doesn’t really matter what you call them when it comes to the grade point average. The top grade, usually called ‘A’ here in the states is worth 4 points and the bottom grade (‘F’) is worth 0. Call the grades what you will, but a 4.0 is a 4.0. ---
**Author:** ![MessyPaint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@MessyPaint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MessyPaint)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/13 "2006-03-19T16:53:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Here in Israel grades go from 4 to 10, with 4 & 5 failing and 6-10 passing. The numerical scores have commonly accepted names: > > 10 - Excellent > > 9 - Very Good > > 8 - Good > > 7 - Almost Good > > 6 - Sufficient > > 5 - Almost Sufficient > > 4 - Insufficient. Hehe 😃 , “Almost Good” That’s kind of silly. Though, I guess I’ve always been an almost good kind of person. ---
**Author:** ![flex727](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@flex727](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flex727)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/14 "2006-03-19T16:55:19Z")
Doesn’t look like the OP is really being addressed. Short answer is that at one time, with paper report cards, it would be a simple matter to change an “F” into an “E”, with one stroke of a pen. That, and the fact that some might think “E” stands for “Excellent”, make “E” a letter to be avoided. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/15 "2006-03-19T16:57:57Z")
> [@flex727](#): > > Doesn’t look like the OP is really being addressed. Short answer is that at one time, with paper report cards, it would be a simple matter to change an “F” into an “E”, with one stroke of a pen. I thought of this too, but they only use 5 letters in the grading system, meaning that there wouldn’t be an ‘F’ if they didn’t skip ‘E’. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/16 "2006-03-19T17:01:26Z")
> [@blueslipper](#): > > I have always presumed this was a strange American habit. I find it odd that a ‘D’ can be a pass. > The system in New Zealand was A B C were passes and D E were fails. English exams are more complicated still. GCSEs (taken at 16) run A\* A B … F G. C is considered the minimum ‘good’ grade, because the exams replaced a two-tier system of O Levels and CSEs, with the latter lower exam being replaced by the GCSE grades D-G. A levels, taken at 18, have passes graded A-E. In both cases, the fail grade is U (‘ungraded’). ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/17 "2006-03-19T17:02:52Z")
My high school (in a Chicago suburb) used A, B, C, D, & E twenty years ago when I was there. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/18 "2006-03-19T17:24:22Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > Standard grades here are High Distinction (HD), Distinction (D), Credit (Cr), Pass (P) and Fail (F). Funny story about this. I sat on an admissions committee for a masters program at A Very Selective, Old University. We had a candidate who had great work experiences, a solid array of GRE scores, but the folder was flagged. Said student’s undergrad grades were so-so - really a low B, but one of the readers expressed concern that the student went to Australia, she clearly didn’t take the classes seriously - she had C’s, D’s, and one pass! Obviously this reflected poorly on her - exotic locales distracted her from her studies, it seemed. This made no sense to me - so I turned the transcript over and read the scale. Problem solved, student was admitted. But she might have gotten tossed because of her “bad” grades from Australia.\* - Note to study-abroad folks - get a copy of your transcript and mark on your application that there is a different grading scale, if that’s the case. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/19 "2006-03-19T19:04:21Z")
In ante-deluvian times, when I was in college, we got marks (not grades, that was originally a euphemism that came later) A,B,C,D,E, or F. They had an early GPA system too, except it went 0 to 5, with an E worth 1 point. The obvious interpretation of this was that D was a real pass, E was a failure and F was an abysmal failure. Just like betamax lost out in the marketplace, so did this system and now D stands for a sort of partial failure (you can’t use it for a prerequisite, you can’t use it in your major, but you do get credit) and F a failure. I assume that this was once more widespread and now E has just been dropped. I have long felt that if the only reason we give marks is to generate a GPA, we should just give a GPA mark. A 4 would be a real A, a 3 a real B, but 3.5 is right on the border. It makes averaging easy and avoids arguments since there are no sharp break points. To me it makes a lot of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969/20 "2006-03-20T01:43:16Z")
> [@Hippy Hollow](#): > > Funny story about this. I sat on an admissions committee for a masters program at A Very Selective, Old University. We had a candidate who had great work experiences, a solid array of GRE scores, but the folder was flagged. Said student’s undergrad grades were so-so - really a low B, but one of the readers expressed concern that the student went to Australia, she clearly didn’t take the classes seriously - she had C’s, D’s, and one pass! Obviously this reflected poorly on her - exotic locales distracted her from her studies, it seemed. > > This made no sense to me - so I turned the transcript over and read the scale. Problem solved, student was admitted. But she might have gotten tossed because of her “bad” grades from Australia.\* > > - Note to study-abroad folks - get a copy of your transcript and mark on your application that there is a different grading scale, if that’s the case. Then again, a transcript with no HD’s and a pass isn’t exactly stellar. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-grading-system-skipping-e/348969.md?page=2)