# Origin of "guv'nor" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572 "2006-02-01T21:16:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/1 "2006-02-01T21:16:19Z")
Judging by appearances in literature, the British slang term “guv’nor” as a form by which a working-class person addresses one of the gentry has been around at least since Victorian times. Where did it come from? I doubt it comes from the word “governor” meaning a colonial administrator – based on what I know of British social history, most working-class Brits in Victorian times did not even know the Empire existed. Did the word “governor” perhaps have some other use, for a local official or something? ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/2 "2006-02-01T21:21:04Z")
I thought it was just a slang version of “governor” in the sense of “boss”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/3 "2006-02-01T21:41:52Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > I thought it was just a slang version of “governor” in the sense of “boss”. Yes, but how did “governor” come to mean “boss”? I’m familiar with it only as a strictly political title. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/4 "2006-02-01T21:46:39Z")
“Governor” isn’t used solely as the title for the heads of government of the several states in the U.S. It can be used, and is used, in a variety of meanings. A governor can be the head official in a colony or dependency (that’s where the American usage came from). It is used as the title for the head of the central bank in many countries, and it’s sometimes also used for the commanding officer in penitentiaries. Especially this latter meaning could probably explain the jargon usage for addressing people of higher social standing. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/5 "2006-02-01T21:53:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yes, but how did “governor” come to mean “boss”? I’m familiar with it only as a strictly political title. As \*\*Schnitte \*\* said, it has many more meanings than its political one. A quick look in the Macquarie Dictionary shows: > [@](#): > > 1. (often upper case) a person charged with the direction or control of an institution, society, etc.: governors of a bank; governor of a prison. > 2. (often upper case) > a. the representative of the sovereign in a state of the Commonwealth of Australia, holding mainly nominal executive powers. > b. the representative of the sovereign with statutory powers in a British dependent territory. > 3. (often upper case) a ruler or chief magistrate appointed to govern a province, town, fort, or the like. > 4. (often upper case) the executive head of a state in the US. > 5. Machinery a device for regulating a supply of fuel in an engine for ensuring uniform speed regardless of the load. > 6. Colloquial > a. one’s employer. > b. any person of superior status. > c. one’s father. [Middle English governour, from Old French governeor, from Latin gubernator steersman, director] ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/6 "2006-02-01T21:54:05Z")
Like **Schnitte** said, originally, a “governor” was just somebody in charge of something. So, for example, when the Bank of England was set up, the guy in charge had the title “Governor of the Bank of England”. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/7 "2006-02-01T22:05:29Z")
“Guv’nor” or just plain “guv” is most prevalent in London slang. I got it off a cab driver there recently. And yes, it does mean “governor”, an archaic word for “boss”, but can be applied to pretty much anyone. ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/8 "2006-02-01T22:15:50Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > “Guv’nor” or just plain “guv” is most prevalent in London slang. I got it off a cab driver there recently. And yes, it does mean “governor”, an archaic word for “boss”, but can be applied to pretty much anyone. Right you are squire. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/9 "2006-02-01T22:22:27Z")
> [@deevee](#): > > Right you are squire. Fair enough, chief. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/10 "2006-02-01T22:29:55Z")
Oh, and a few words to the etymology: “Governor” comes, via French “gouverneur,” from Latin “gubernator,” literally the one who navigates a ship (hence the English adjective _gubernatorial_). IIRC it was already in antiquity when the word started to be applied metaphorically to someone who reigns or commands something. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/11 "2006-02-02T22:38:53Z")
“Governor” and “cybernetics” have a common origin. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor#Etymology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor#Etymology) > [@](#): > > The English word “governor” stems from the Latin gubernātor and the Greek kybernetes (helmsman or steersman), which in origin stem from the Latin gubernare and the Greek kybernan (to steer or govern). The recent English word “cybernetics” shares the same etymology. Strictly or etymologically, the word “governor” is therefore supposed to be a metaphor derived from “steersman.” ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/12 "2006-02-02T23:41:22Z")
Fanx, me old china! (And **deevee** and **jjim** , I think that’s the politest exchange I’ve heard between Cambridge and Oxford…) ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/13 "2006-02-02T23:46:15Z")
I’ve also heard it used (in films) to mean someone’s dad, like in _Around The World In 80 Days_, when a man at the club says he spent his three years at Oxford shooting pool and it cost his “poor old governor” a lot of money. Is/was it used that way, or is that merely a malapropism of American writers trying to “do British”? ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/14 "2006-02-02T23:57:48Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I’ve also heard it used (in films) to mean someone’s dad, like in _Around The World In 80 Days_, when a man at the club says he spent his three years at Oxford shooting pool and it cost his “poor old governor” a lot of money. > > Is/was it used that way, or is that merely a malapropism of American writers trying to “do British”? That’s certainly one of the colloquial definitions (the final one) given in the dictionary that I quoted in my earlier post. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/15 "2006-02-03T00:20:33Z")
One of the many English TV police series was ‘The Sweeney’, which is slang for the Flying Squad (a branch of the London police). It starred John Thaw as an Inspector and Dennis Waterman as his Sergeant. There were lots of car chases and some shootouts (they dealt with armed robbers…). (A police friend of mine reckoned it was the most accurate portrayal of the police, but that’s another story!) Anyway there was a glorious exchange when the Sergeant is asked who two men are (one is his Inspector and the other is the Inspector’s boss.) “That’s my Guv’nor.” “You mean your boss.” “No, he’s my Guv’nor. The other one’s the boss!” ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/16 "2006-02-03T00:30:31Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I’ve also heard it used (in films) to mean someone’s dad, like in _Around The World In 80 Days_, when a man at the club says he spent his three years at Oxford shooting pool and it cost his “poor old governor” a lot of money. > > Is/was it used that way, or is that merely a malapropism of American writers trying to “do British”? As an English chappie, I would expect this meaning to typically imply: - a date at least 50 years ago - a well-off / rich family - the son to be a University student or living off his family ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-guvnor/342572/17 "2006-02-03T04:12:26Z")
Historically, the term governor was used both in England and the US to mean a person’s father, cited from 1827. It is also cited from 1844 as a form of address, meaning sir or fellow. I think it died in the US while still in the 19th century. But continued in England.