# Origin of hip **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 1, 2001, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957 "2001-05-01T14:10:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2001, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/1 "2001-05-01T14:10:20Z")
[http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhip.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhip.html) In the Wolof language of West Africa, _hipikat_ means ‘one whose eyes are open’. As the etymon for _hepcat_ meaning someone who is aware, in the know, with it, this makes way more sense than the drill instructor’s “hup two three four.” There are plenty of other African words that survived into African-American Ebonics, so the idea is certainly plausible. Goober. Gumbo. Okra. Yam. Jazz. [Jive](http://www.linguistlist.org/issues/4/4-705.html). **MOJO**. In Wolof, _hipi_ is the verb ‘to open the eyes’ and -_kat_ is the agentive suffix. This makes plenty of sense and would even account for the popularity of “cat” in hipster slang meaning a person. Similar to the Hindustani agentive suffix -_vâlâ_ which in Indo-English slang has become an all-purpose word for a person, equivalent to “guy” or “dude”: _wallah_. Jomo, your word wallah. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/2 "2001-05-02T02:34:07Z")
**Jomo** I’m sure you’re right that the origin of the word “hep” leading to “hip” didn’t come from the “hup” of the drill instructor. It was in print in 1903 as “hep” meaning “wise” in English. But I would be curious to know where “jazz” came from in African, leading to the use of “jazz” in the sense of music. As with “jive”, these words appeared in print in English in the first part of the 20th Century, while much other African-English appeared much earlier in print. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/3 "2001-05-02T03:02:26Z")
:::going out on a limb with a quick guess, which may prove later to be embarassing::: This Bill Bryson fellow who seems to have a book discussing etymologies of some English words is more of an entertainer that a linguistic scholar. I guess a trip to Border’s is in the offing this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/4 "2001-05-02T03:23:09Z")
In “Bet the Devil Your Head,” Edgar Allen Poe has one character ask another, “are you hipped?” Therefore I submit this as an earlier written record of the use of hip, comming from opium smokers lying on hip, than those origins cited in your column. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/5 "2001-05-02T03:35:10Z")
I side with samclem on Bryson. If you have some other reliable source, Jomo, please email me or list it here. I would be happy to investigate. There is always a difficulty with tracking word origins, since the only record we have is the printed record. And, as noted, slang usage often did not find its way into print until after long, long usage. In our era of revisionist history, it is therefore pretty easy to make all sorts of claims that can’t readily be disproved. My take has always been, the burden of proof rests with the person making the claim; that person needs to prove his/her statement, I don’t need to disprove it. The link Jomo provides claims that “OK” actually originated in Africa. I can only note that the origin as a joke term from “Oll Korrect” is pretty well documented, and was one of several such terms (including OW for “Oll Wright”). “OK” caught on, and the others didn’t. Any claims for an earlier and different origin need to be proved rather than simply asserted. Note Cecil’s column: [What’s the origin of O.K.?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_250.html) [Edited by C K Dexter Haven on 05-01-2001 at 10:39 PM] ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/6 "2001-05-02T04:55:15Z")
**AcidKid** Welcome aboard. Enjoy the ride. “Hipped” has been around a long time and has had many a meaning. Try these: _ca_1710\*\* OED2\*\* the earliest cite. Meaning: "affected with hypochondria or low spirits; dejected; bored, crossed, offended. Cites available well-into the late 19th Century. ---
**Author:** ![ndorward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c2a13f/32.png) [@ndorward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ndorward)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/7 "2001-05-02T05:40:07Z")
OK, can’t resist citing a Dave Frishbeg lyric–“I’m Hip”. It can illuminate the last paragraphs of the staff report in its deathless line: “When it was hip to be hep, I was hep.” --N ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/8 "2001-05-02T09:35:38Z")
Regardless of the etymology of OK, African or not, discussed in that message from the LINGUIST list (which was not the topic in this thread anyway), the case its author made for the Wolof origin of _hepcat_ is the strongest I’ve seen. What else are you looking for? I linked to it because of its African etymologies for other words besides O.K. including _hepcat, jive, dig_, showing that several African words had survived the Middle Passage into American English. As for _jazz_, the _Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology_ says: > [@](#): > > perhaps related to earlier _jasm_ energy, apparently of African origin (compare Tshiluba _jaja_ cause to dance, Mandingo _jasi_ and Wolof _yees_ step out of character, become unlike oneself, Temne _yas_ be extremely lively or energetic). The source of _jazz_ in English is not known, and the connection with _jasm_ cannot be fully demonstrated, but the form, sense, and chronology suggest that a relationship may exist, though in words of dialect and slang origin it is often very difficult to assign a definite origin or even to trace a series of possible steps to a nebulous origin. References to a connection with jazz and sexual intercourse do not appear before the 1920s. See also “The Earliest Citation of Jazz,” by David Shulman, _Comments on Etymology_, 16, 5-6 (Dec. 1986). > > By 1922 _jazz_ was applied to the music used in the original dance as well as to other forms of music originating among American blacks. > > The meaning of energy, excitement, pep, is first recorded in 1913, again perhaps influenced by the earlier _jasm_. * * * At Mojo’s request, I have made minor edits to fix italics.–Dex [Edited by C K Dexter Haven on 05-06-2001 at 09:36 AM] ---
**Author:** ![JuanDeCuba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JuanDeCuba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JuanDeCuba)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/9 "2001-05-02T12:21:06Z")
I’m inclined to believe it came from hup two three four after hearing Cab Calloway sing “Are you hep, are you hep? Are you keepin’ in step? Are you hep to the jive?” but that could have had more to do with the ryhme involved that with the origin of the word. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/10 "2001-05-03T09:24:09Z")
Hijack! Mojo, yangiwakh wolof frere? Eh, ngadef? By the way, I have not forgotten your question, but I had a bit of a tiff with my tutor so I put this on the back burner. Well, carry on. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/11 "2001-05-04T03:23:15Z")
**Jomo** , and a few other posters ultimately base their assumptions on the works of a **D. Dalby** , who, in 1972 offered linguistic links to modern words in English which probably/possibly came from African words. Among the words discussed were \*jazz, jive, hip/hep, dig \*. While I am not a linguist, I do try to explore sources which seem written by scholars who do such work for a living. One such person is J.E. Lighter, who edited the most recent authoratative work on American slang in print. The work is _Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, Vol. I/II, ed. by J.E. Lighter_. This is a monumental work which brings together all of the works on American slang which have been published in the last 100+ years. In the case of the four words offered above, _jazz, jive, hip/hep, dig_ Lighter is adamant that there is no credible evidence that these words came into common usage in the US from African origins. Could they have–of course. But the evidence is overwhelmingly against it. I will quote Lighter on _dig_ here– > [@](#): > > The development of these senses has aroused some interest. R.S. Gold, a knowledgeable commentator, asserts(Jazz talk, p. 68) that _dig_ in these senses was “introduced into jazz speech by Louis Armstrong, c. 1925, but [has become] widely current only since c. 1935”; this implies that the word was unfamiliar to black jazz performers before this period. D. Dalby’s suggestion in 1972 that _dig_ is a reflex of some African word (e.g., Wolof _deg, dega_ ‘to understand; to appreciate’) has not been substantiated; nor has the assumed earlier currency in Black E. in the U.S. or elsewhere been documented in surviving representations of early Black E. And examples of earlier Black English in print in the mid-1800’s are quite plentiful and available-just not on these words. I have no quarrel with your inclusion of the terms **Goober, gumbo, yams, okra**. They all pretty certainly came from African words. Notice they are all names of foods. Not slang terms. (Although “goober” came to be used that way later). And just to lend credibility to Dr. Lighter, he agrees with you about **mojo** by saying > [@](#): > > cf. Gullah _moco_ ‘witchcraft, magic’, prob. akin to Fulani \*moco’o ‘shaman’ ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hip/63957/12 "2001-05-04T14:10:02Z")
_Jama ngaam,_ **Collounsbury** , _nanga def? Xamuma Wolof, jerejef! Ba beneen yon…_