# Origin of HIV **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 29, 2011, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483 "2011-08-29T10:40:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/21 "2011-08-30T04:26:26Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > So the CIA invented HIV, killed JFK, abducted all of Roswell, NM or something, > and did a helluva job with that late 1960s lunar mock-up. We must always remember > to be objective about such things, and keep an open mind! > > Thank you, making sure we are all up do date on stuff like this. Where would we be > without people like you?! Oh. Wait. Craig didn’t even _mention_ the CIA. Gosh Craig, I’m sorry. Forgive me? ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/22 "2011-08-30T14:06:01Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > So the CIA invented HIV, killed JFK, abducted all of Roswell, NM or something, > and did a helluva job with that late 1960s lunar mock-up. We must always remember > to be objective about such things, and keep an open mind! > > Thank you, making sure we are all up do date on stuff like this. Where would we be > without people like you?! If by “people like” him you mean someone who comes in here and asks questions and listens to answers, I’m happy to have them. ---
**Author:** ![Emilyrecycles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@Emilyrecycles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emilyrecycles)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/23 "2011-08-30T14:10:14Z")
You know, as a new member, it’s very discouraging to see Such negative, Nasty, responses. Are you really trying to enlighten people? Or are you all just so cocky that you can’t so much as choose to not respond if you find someones question amusing, rather than choosing to respond in a mockery manner. Believe me, in fighting ignorance, you’re going to have to deal with much more seemingly common sense questions than the one so many of you are mocking here. And you aren’t fighting anything with that attitude. In fact, your helping to keep ignorance afloat, while deterring those with genuine questions, and preventing others from finding the truth, while they likely feel that there question may be made to your amusement, causing embarrassment and truly only helping to be sure they don’t seek answers again, in fear that they might be scrutiniZed for doing exactly what you all claim you’re here to do. Hypocrites. This seems more of an elitist group. You are all so much better and wiser and wouldn’t dare inquire about something you feel should be obvious, such as proposed consipirAcies. Well guess what, a good percentage of the world isn’t as fortunate as you and hasn’t found the time or resources to be “in the know.” and your merely shunning people for wanting to be more aware. I was told once as a child that any question is a good question. I’m going back to my roots and stressing that here, while insisiting that some of you self-righteous know it alls stop to really consider that you are completely contradictig your “mission statement” while you sit there and mock ANYONE at all for any question that’s asked simply to gain knowledge, while they too want to be as informed as you. ---
**Author:** ![Emilyrecycles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@Emilyrecycles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emilyrecycles)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/24 "2011-08-30T14:16:32Z")
And I shouldn’t have said “you all”, as clearly not everyone responded with a mockery comment. However, my above note is directed to those who did, and I hope you dont laugh it off and mock me some more, because I do believe that your causing an adverse reaction from what your said intentions. I understand that humor can be healing and beneficial, when appropriate, but your blatant disregard to peoples feelings is not at all funny. More so, I’d like to apologize in advance for my spelling and lack of editing, both here and above, while I’m using a small cell phone with a touch screen, where I’m unable to go back and review or edit as I’m not that privileged, so save your wise cracks, please. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/25 "2011-08-30T14:18:19Z")
> [@Emilyrecycles](#): > > You know, as a new member, it’s very discouraging to see > Such negative, Nasty, responses. Are you really trying to enlighten people? Or are you all just so cocky that you can’t so much as choose to not respond if you find someones question amusing, rather than choosing to respond in a mockery manner. Believe me, in fighting ignorance, you’re going to have to deal with much more seemingly common sense questions than the one so many of you are mocking here. And you aren’t fighting anything with that attitude. In fact, your helping to keep ignorance afloat, while deterring those with genuine questions, and preventing others from finding the truth, while they likely feel that there question may be made to your amusement, causing embarrassment and truly only helping to be sure they don’t seek answers again, in fear that they might be scrutiniZed for doing exactly what you all claim you’re here to do. Hypocrites. This seems more of an elitist group. You are all so much better and wiser and wouldn’t dare inquire about something you feel should be obvious, such as proposed consipirAcies. Well guess what, a good percentage of the world isn’t as fortunate as you and hasn’t found the time or resources to be “in the know.” and your merely shunning people for wanting to be more aware. I was told once as a child that any question is a good question. I’m going back to my roots and stressing that here, while insisiting that some of you self-righteous know it alls stop to really consider that you are completely contradictig your “mission statement” while you sit there and mock ANYONE at all for any question that’s asked simply to gain knowledge, while they too want to be as informed as you. Thank you, **Emilyrecycles**. ---
**Author:** ![Emilyrecycles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a183cd/32.png) [@Emilyrecycles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emilyrecycles)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/26 "2011-08-30T14:19:00Z")
Note- river runner, you beat me to my point and I hadn’t seen your reply until after posting mine. Thank you for being a stand up person with genuine intentions! ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/27 "2011-08-30T21:41:24Z")
> [@Emilyrecycles](#): > > You know, as a new member, it’s very discouraging to see > Such negative, Nasty, responses… You realize, I hope, that this is a public message board that anyone can sign onto, and so you are going to get everyone from ignorant jerks to PhD’s who are happy to share their expertise. Also, the occasional Expert Arrogant Jerk, of course. None of us are affiliated in any way with the company that operates this place, except the mods and admins, of course. Even jerks are allowed to post, as long as they don’t violate the rules. Please take that into account before you judge the board as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/28 "2011-08-30T22:19:03Z")
> [@emilyrecycles](#): > > You know, as a new member, it’s very discouraging to see > Such negative, Nasty, responses. Are you really trying to enlighten people? Or are you all just so cocky that you can’t so much as choose to not respond if you find someones question amusing, rather than choosing to respond in a mockery manner. Believe me, in fighting ignorance, you’re going to have to deal with much more seemingly common sense questions than the one so many of you are mocking here… What do you mean by “common sense”, Emily? To me it has to do with sound judgment, and that would not characterize someone who waltzes in here with a schpeel about polio vaccination causing cancer, about polio research leading to HIV, about a murdered researcher, all tied neatly together by the JFK assassination. Are f\*cking kidding me? Such rubbish such deserves to be treated like rubbish, and that would necessarily include a significant measure of nastiness and mockery. The cause of rigorous intellectual discourse is not advanced by handling rubbish in any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/29 "2011-08-31T02:46:06Z")
Once again: Beatrice Hahn for the straight dope on the current knowledge of the epidemiology of HIV. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/30 "2011-08-31T03:25:22Z")
> [@RiverRunner](#): > > If by “people like” him you mean someone who comes in here and asks questions and listens to answers, I’m happy to have them. That is not what I mean by “people like him”, obviousy. What I do mean I mean is irratioanally susceptible to complete and utter crackpot bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/31 "2011-08-31T13:38:12Z")
> [@Emilyrecycles](#): > > Believe me, in fighting ignorance, you’re going to have to deal with much more seemingly common sense questions than the one so many of you are mocking here. Yes. And the respectfulness of replies is usually proportional to how sensible the question is. Regardless, the ignorance-fighting aspect of the board is enhanced when users focus on the factual evidence provided, rather than honing in on the tone of replies. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/32 "2011-09-02T05:01:39Z")
> [@Craig234](#): > > Nowhere did I say I ‘believe’ this stuff. The only question I directly asked was how much is known about whether HIV evolved naturally. That’s a sensible question. ---
**Author:** ![Craig234](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Craig234](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Craig234)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/33 "2011-09-15T08:22:37Z")
Thanks to the nice, civil people who responded. In the meantime, I found a good article from an organization called ‘Avert’. I mailed them, asking for some clarification, and they responded very helpfully. While I think I’ll not paste that e-mail info at this time, they included a PDF that has a lot of great info on the topic. [http://bl158w.blu158.mail.live.com/mail/#](http://bl158w.blu158.mail.live.com/mail/#) It pretty much addresses it. One question that came up is, science suggests the simian virus HIV is from is at least 32,000 years old - so why now for HIV? It’s not as if people haven’t been eating monkeys all that time probably. What a coincidence it happens at the same time our science has advanced to the point of doing germ warfare research, etc. Well, actually, it appears it is just that ‘coincidence’ - and that versions of HIV have been probably occurring for centuries, but not with the easy transmission. Enjoy the article. And feel free to enjoy the JFK connection conspiracy theory I linked, as spectacle. I thought people could enjoy a bit of spectacle. Clearly, some are not so able to. ---
**Author:** ![Craig234](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Craig234](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Craig234)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/34 "2011-09-15T08:30:23Z")
I tested the URL I posted, it doesn’t work, going to my mail. I edited my message to clarify, and it says ‘the administrator limits you to editing for 5 minutes’. So, I can’t edit the message anymore. I’ll post the ‘new’ version below. In the meantime, here are a couple links they sent with a lot of good info: > **[SIV to HIV: Monkeying Around with an Epidemic.](https://seriousmonkeybusiness.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/siv-to-hiv-monkeying-around-with-an-epidemic/)** > > When I talk with friends about primates and disease, it always surprises me how many are unaware as to how SIV came to be associated with HIV. The long misguided associations of it being a “g… > **[Dating the Age of the SIV Lineages That Gave Rise to HIV-1 and HIV-2](https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1000377)** > > Author Summary HIV/AIDS continues to be a major health problem worldwide. An understanding of the evolution of HIV in humans may be greatly improved by detailed knowledge of its predecessor, simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV), in non-human primates.... Thanks to the nice, civil people who responded. In the meantime, I found a good article from an organization called ‘Avert’. I mailed them, asking for some clarification, and they responded very helpfully. While I think I’ll not paste that e-mail info at this time, they included a PDF that has a lot of great info on the topic. It pretty much addresses it. One question that came up is, science suggests the simian virus HIV is from is at least 32,000 years old - so why now for HIV? It’s not as if people haven’t been eating monkeys all that time probably. What a coincidence it happens at the same time our science has advanced to the point of doing germ warfare research, etc. Well, actually, it appears it is just that ‘coincidence’ - and that versions of HIV have been probably occurring for centuries, but not with the easy transmission. I was going to post that .pdf, but can’t figure out how to post a link to it. I’d be happy to follow instructions or e-mail it to someone who can host it. That’s a first, usually right-click copy location does it fine. This time it just goes back to my mail. And feel free to enjoy the JFK connection conspiracy theory I linked, as spectacle. I thought people could enjoy a bit of spectacle. Clearly, some are not so able to. ---
**Author:** ![Craig234](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Craig234](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Craig234)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/35 "2011-09-15T08:38:43Z")
OK, ran into the 5 minute limit again. IMO that could be extended a bit. I found another link to the .pdf I discussed using google. Here it is: [http://www.asm.org/asm/ccLibraryFiles/Filename/000000001300/znw00105000015.pdf](http://www.asm.org/asm/ccLibraryFiles/Filename/000000001300/znw00105000015.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/36 "2011-09-15T12:25:47Z")
Well thank you for just asking questions. ---
**Author:** ![Craig234](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Craig234](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Craig234)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/37 "2011-09-15T12:35:27Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Well thank you for just asking questions. I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic. Hopefully, you’re not. If so, let me know and I won’t waste more time. On your previous post, I ran across the issue you mention, of the scientist making a facetious remark that was widely falsely reported as something he was claiming. ---
**Author:** ![John\_hanner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@John\_hanner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_hanner)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483/38 "2015-08-22T07:47:54Z")
Dr Mary’s Monkey is a joke,laughable. None of the accused are alive to defend themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-hiv/594483.md?page=1)