# Origin of Honky - Honky-Tonk and Honky white guy **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 26, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003 "2020-01-26T17:04:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/1 "2020-01-26T17:04:15Z")
Is Honky the same origin in both uses? Honky-Tonk a rowdy country bar that features music & dance Honky - white guy - mild racial characterization ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/2 "2020-01-26T17:08:44Z")
For what it’s worth, Wikipedia says “honky tonk,” referring to a rowdy bar, predates “honky,” as a pejorative for white people, by decades. The origins of both usages appear shrouded in mystery. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/3 "2020-01-26T17:09:55Z")
From [etymonline](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=honky), your source for all your word origin needs: > [@](#): > > honky (n.) > also honkey, derogatory word for “white person,” by 1967, African-American vernacular, of unknown origin, perhaps from late 19c. hunky “East-Central European immigrant,” which probably is a colloquial shortening of Hungarian (compare hunk (n.2)). Honky in the sense of “factory hand” is attested by 1946 in blues slang. > > honky-tonk (n.) > “cheap night club,” by 1898 (honk-a-tonk is from 1894), Southern U.S., of unknown origin. As a type of music played in that sort of low saloon, it is attested from 1921. So probably not. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/4 "2020-01-26T17:10:51Z")
Probably not, although neither term has a definitive etymology. > **[honky | Search Online Etymology Dictionary](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=honky)** > > The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible... “Honky” as “white person” is probably from “hunky”, a shortened form of “Hungarian”, referring to any Eastern European person especially one working as a laborer. The etymology of “honky-tonk” is unknown. It has also been written “honkatonk”. There is a Suffolk dialectical word “honky-donks” meaning “hobnailed shoes” but The Historical Dictionary of American Slang says this is probably a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/5 "2020-01-26T17:16:48Z")
To add to Hey Homie’s observation, the Historical Dictionary of American Slang has the first citation of “honky-tonk” in 1894 (as “honk-a-tonk”) and the first citation of “honky” is in 1946. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/6 "2020-01-26T17:24:27Z")
[Here](https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/756/whats-the-origin-of-honky/) is another obscure reference. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/7 "2020-01-26T18:29:48Z")
I had looked at Wikipedia before posting and the entry was a bit confusing. Thought maybe there were better references. I’ll read the links offered here. Thank you for your help. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/8 "2020-01-26T18:41:23Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Probably not, although neither term has a definitive etymology. > [honky | Search Online Etymology Dictionary](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=honky) > “Honky” as “white person” is probably from “hunky”, a shortened form of “Hungarian”, referring to any Eastern European person especially one working as a laborer. The variant of this that I have heard (though I can’t lay hands on a cite right now) is that it derives from “[bohunk](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bohunk)” - for which Partridge gives: > [@](#): > > “As a Polish or Slavic labourer, [it] was familiar to me in 1910 in British Columbia” (Leechman): Can, Prob adopted from the US. Mattheew records it for 1903 and explains it as a modified blend of _Bohemian_ and _Hungarian_. As an aside, is bohunk current in the US? j ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/9 "2020-01-26T19:03:02Z")
The Historical Dictionary of American Slang says “bohunk” is probably from “Bohemian hunky” and its first citation is from 1903. “Bohunk” isn’t very familiar to me as a US English speaker but I can’t say I’ve never heard it before. THDAS gives a citation from the 1984 film _Sixteen Candles_. [Google ngrams](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=bohunk&year_start=1850&year_end=2020&corpus=15&smoothing=0&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cbohunk%3B%2Cc0) shows its use peaked around 1921 but has not completely died out. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/10 "2020-01-26T19:03:09Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > The variant of this that I have heard (though I can’t lay hands on a cite right now) is that it derives from “[bohunk](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bohunk)” - for which Partridge gives: > > As an aside, is bohunk current in the US? > > j It’s … I would call it dated, but I grew up with that word in the 80s, and I understood it to be a contraction of Bohemian+Hungarian. (We didn’t really have that many Hungarians here, but the Bohemians would sometimes be referred to as “Bohunks.”) ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/11 "2020-01-26T19:35:06Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > The Historical Dictionary of American Slang says “bohunk” is probably from “Bohemian hunky” and its first citation is from 1903. > > “Bohunk” isn’t very familiar to me as a US English speaker but I can’t say I’ve never heard it before. THDAS gives a citation from the 1984 film _Sixteen Candles_. [Google ngrams](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=bohunk&year_start=1850&year_end=2020&corpus=15&smoothing=0&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cbohunk%3B%2Cc0) shows its use peaked around 1921 but has not completely died out. Ringo uses it in _(It’s All Down To) Goodnight Vienna_, which was written by John (1974): _Felt like a bohunk but I kept up my cool Green as a frog, man I was back into school Zipped up my mouth coz I was starting to droll It’s all da da down to Goodnight Vienna!_ ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/12 "2020-01-27T05:49:43Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > As an aside, is bohunk current in the US? Probably in certain parts of the country. I’m in the Cleveland area and used to work with a guy nicknamed “Tommy the Bohunk” in the late 90s. I’ve heard people use it since, because Cleveland is rife with Bohemians (Czechs). It’s probably a lot less known in, say, Montana. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/13 "2020-01-27T17:13:29Z")
I haven’t thought of/heard “bohunk” in ages. Is it like “honky,” which, like so many of these words, is “mild” or “very not mild” depending on when and who is using it? I used to live in a Czech neighborhood, and heard it said by a (presumably) Czech American about himself. But is it more often just descriptor rather than epithet, and used non-offensively by everyone? Ie, not even approaching the defined social interactions when the word “honky” or “nigger” is used. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-honky-honky-tonk-and-honky-white-guy/847003/14 "2020-01-27T17:23:18Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > The variant of this that I have heard (though I can’t lay hands on a cite right now) is that it derives from “[bohunk](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bohunk)” - for which Partridge gives: > > As an aside, is bohunk current in the US? > > j > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I haven’t thought of/heard “bohunk” in ages. Is it like “honky,” which, like so many of these words, is “mild” or “very not mild” depending on when and who is using it? > > I used to live in a Czech neighborhood, and heard it said by a (presumably) Czech American about himself. > > But is it more often just descriptor rather than epithet, and used non-offensively by everyone? Ie, not even approaching the defined social interactions when the word “honky” or “nigger” is used. “Bohunk” is, to me, about equivalent to “polack.” Who says it and how they say it matters, though I don’t hear “bohunk” anywhere near as much as I hear “polack,” but they’re both dropping in usage as immigration waves have passed by.