# Origin of John and Jane Doe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 31, 2001, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-john-and-jane-doe/74361 "2001-07-31T18:07:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 2\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-john-and-jane-doe/74361/1 "2001-07-31T18:07:46Z")
Does anyone know the origin of the term John or Jane Doe for an unknown decest person? I haven’t found a reference anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-john-and-jane-doe/74361/2 "2001-07-31T18:41:04Z")
Lo, behold the glory of our omniscient prophet, for Cecil came down from the mountain and spoke thusly: > [@](#): > > \*\*“John Doe” was the name used by the British to stand in for unknown parties in legal actions. Doe was generally the plaintiff, with his sidekick “Richard Roe” subbing for the defendant. (Get it, roe and doe? Kind of a deer thing.) Use of the name goes back at least as far as the fourteenth century; there’s even some speculation that the names are as old as the Magna Carta (1215, if it’s slipped your mind), which required two witnesses for every legal proceeding. According to this story, when the wily prosecutors of the day found themselves short of witnesses, Doe and Roe were automatically pressed into service. Then, as now, no one much seemed to mind. \*\* [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2\_168a.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_168a.html) -Beeblebrox “I am so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.”