# Origin of "Laundry List" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 6, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033 "2007-04-06T21:03:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/1 "2007-04-06T21:03:38Z")
I understand that “Laundry List” is supposed to mean some form of item-by-item enumeration, but where did the phrase originate? My laundry list looks like this: 1. Do Laundry When was laundry so complicated that you had to have a detailed list of instructions in order to do it correctly? Even when automation gave us the washing machine with wringer attachment, it still couldn’t have been _that_ complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/2 "2007-04-06T21:08:29Z")
This is purely WAG, but I’d always interpreted it as “list of items [that were/to be] taken to the (professional) laundry” – which would be fairly long and explicitly detailed. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/3 "2007-04-06T21:17:30Z")
Hadn’t thought of that. But isn’t laundering as a profession a fairly recent “invention”? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/4 "2007-04-06T21:20:33Z")
[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture] Hadn’t thought of that. But isn’t laundering as a profession a fairly recent “invention”? [/QUOTE] According to [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com), the term dates to the mid [50’s](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/laundry%20list) . ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/5 "2007-04-06T21:27:56Z")
It’s much more recent than I would have guessed, according to [Wordwizard](http://www.wordwizard.com/ch_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4671&SearchTerms=laundry,list): > [@](#): > > Tracy, ‘Laundry list’ (~1958) and ‘shopping list’ (~1913 or 1960-65 depending on who you believe) can be used interchangeably. It is just an item by item list of things to do, things that are wished for, etc. > > LAUNDRY LIST, noun (1955-60) [so called from the listing of articles sent to the laundry]: a long list of items to be obtained, discussed, done, or not done; a lengthy, especially random list of items \< the laundry list of new consumer-protection bills; a laundry list of hoped-for presents\> (Random House, Merriam-Webster, Chapman’s Dictionary of American Slang) If shopping list is really older, and it apparently is, the extension of meaning to laundry list is probably traceable to the rise of the laundromat (sometimes spelled laundramat), which was trademarked in 1947 but became widespread in the 1950s. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/6 "2007-04-06T21:38:54Z")
I think laundry list became the more popular expression because it rolls off the tongue so nicely. Say it: L-L-L-aundry L-L-L-ist. L-L-L-aundry. L-L-L-L-L-L-aundry. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/7 "2007-04-06T21:45:57Z")
[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture] Hadn’t thought of that. But isn’t laundering as a profession a fairly recent “invention”? [/QUOTE] Chinese laundries were common in San Francisco by the 1850s. Certainly at some point they would have used written lists to keep track of the laundry from different individuals (hence the shtick of “No tickee, no shirtee.”) Given this, the real surprise is how late the apparent first use of the term is. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/8 "2007-04-06T21:51:21Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] If shopping list is really older, and it apparently is, the extension of meaning to laundry list is probably traceable to the rise of the laundromat (sometimes spelled laundramat), which was trademarked in 1947 but became widespread in the 1950s. [/QUOTE] Although the timing is right, who writes out a list of the clothes you are going to wash yourself in a laundromat? Laundry lists are usually obtained when you take your clothes to a commercial laundry or dry cleaner or have them done when you are staying at a hotel. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/9 "2007-04-07T01:25:45Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] Although the timing is right, who writes out a list of the clothes you are going to wash yourself in a laundromat? Laundry lists are usually obtained when you take your clothes to a commercial laundry or dry cleaner or have them done when you are staying at a hotel. [/QUOTE] When I was living in apartments and taking my laundry to laundromats, every single one of them had a dry cleaning counter for clothing that wasn’t intended to be washed. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/10 "2007-04-07T04:09:05Z")
Completely anecdotal, but when I was doing research digging in city archives in Flanders, in a stack of items dealing with a particular chapel I found a sixteenth-century laundry list–a list of the items and what they were charged for cleaning: “1 chausible: 2 stuivers; 2 altar cloths at 2 st each” etc. I copied it down since it was cool, so I could dig it up if we want that level of documentation here. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/11 "2007-04-07T08:05:44Z")
[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture] Hadn’t thought of that. But isn’t laundering as a profession a fairly recent “invention”? [/QUOTE] One of my great-great-grandmothers came over from Ireland and worked here as a laundress in the 1860s. Not at all a recent invention. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/12 "2007-04-07T08:16:45Z")
If I sent out my laundry to a professional service, I’d make a list of things that needed attention. Things like “buttons on cloak need to be resewn, man’s casual grey striped shirt has rip on neck that needs fixing, green slacks have stain on left hem to be removed”, that sort of stuff. To me, a laundry list is a bunch of little details that need to be done as part of a larger task. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/13 "2007-04-07T08:49:11Z")
A laundry list is a list of items in the bundle that you send to the laundry. I remember when linen etc was picked up from our house and returned a few days later. The nearest example I can think of is the list of clothes you make out in a hotel before getting someone to collect them for cleaning etc. As others have said, it dates back to the 1800s - at the least - probably as far back as (a few select) laundry workers being able to read. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/14 "2007-04-07T08:58:16Z")
OED has no cite from the 1950s in the modern sense. It does have this one, but that’s not really the sense we’re after: > [@](#): > > 1958 Spectator 4 July 24/2 Mr. Wardle makes a point of dissociating himself from the \*laundry-list species of biography-making. Earliest cite for the sense we’re talking about is this one from _Time_: > [@](#): > > 1968 Time 10 May 22 The at-large ballot is a bewildering laundry list of 75 names. I’m willing to bet that it was around in the 50s, I just haven’t seen a specific cite. Do any of the dictionaries quoted above give one? ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/15 "2007-04-07T15:54:13Z")
Ok, since you all begged for it: actually from the 18th century and not the 16th, but anyway. Holy Blood Chapel Archives register 5, piece 63: “Notice of what the [somebody] of the Holy Blood have sent out for washing according to old specifications: for one alb…10 stuivers for one altar linen… 8 st. for one band-cloth [a stole?]… 6 voertkins for one “enedenty” cloth [something like that-- I have no idea what this is]… 3 st. for one hand cloth… 6 vortkens for one altar cloth… 3 st. for one Holy Blood towelette…1/2 st. for one long altar linen… 4 st. for one pillow/cushion cover…1/2 st. for one curtain… 12 st. [added in here: “te veel”: “too much”, heh] for one head cloth… 3 st. for one corporal … 3 st. for one “preficatoon” [=purificator? another liturgical cloth]…1/2st. for one “pallan” [pall cover?]… 6 st. for one cover-strap [?]… 6 st. for one communion cloth… 6 st. for one small linen…1 st. for one ciborium cloth… 3 st.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/16 "2007-04-07T16:19:49Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] When I was living in apartments and taking my laundry to laundromats, every single one of them had a dry cleaning counter for clothing that wasn’t intended to be washed. [/QUOTE] I used to do my laundry in laundromats too, but many were not associated with a dry cleaners. In any case my point stands that laundry lists are more likely to be associated with commericial laundries or dry cleaners than self-service laundromats. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/17 "2007-04-07T17:05:04Z")
[QUOTE=aldiboronti] I’m willing to bet that it was around in the 50s, I just haven’t seen a specific cite. Do any of the dictionaries quoted above give one? [/QUOTE] The fifties and probably much earlier. I just did a search on Newspaper Archive. Saturday, November 22, 1879 Saint Joseph, Michigan St. Joseph Herald. > [@](#): > > —A shirt of strong chain mail is now worn by the Czar of Prussia. We presume Alexander’s object is to cut down the dimensions of his wash bill, but it looks rather small in a man of his line. Let your laundry list alone, Alec, and attend to the Nihilist. That’s our advice.— Monday, October 01, 1900 Anaconda, Montana, Anaconda Standard > [@](#): > > ANACONDA NEWS, > CHEAPER TO BE DIRTY > The Unwashed of Dawson Are Up Against It. > COSTS MONEY TO BE CLEAN > Laundry List Contains Some Astounding Figures—Washing More Expensive Than the Original Garment-Quotations. > > It costs more to have a shirt washed in Dawson City than it does to buy one to have a short washed in Dawson City than it does to buy two or three of some kinds of shirts in Anaconda. Not only does this rule apply to shirts. -There are other things on the bill of fare of a Dawson laundry that come - equally high for their cleansing. • There have been all sorts of stories told and written about Dawson City’s high prices. Everybody who has gone - to Dawson from Anaconda has written home telling how much it costs to live; how it takes a pound of gold to buy a square meal of potatoes and how wide berth by all these people who have written home from the Klondike. > > Perhaps that is because they never had any experience with Dawson City laundries, doubtless finding- it cheaper and more convenient to buy a cake of soap. take a pocket knife and cut notches in a board and then go down to the river and do their own washing. At last, however, an Anaconda man has struck Dawson who is either too lazy to wash his own clothes or has money enough to hire somebody else to do it. Yesterday the mails from Seattle brought to an Anaconda man a letter from a friend in Dawson. Enclosed with the note was a laundry list of the "Arctic Laundry. First street between Second and Third avenues " The further information is also set forth that the laundry is owned and conducted by Mrs. Liljedahl. and that “all goods not called for in aO days will be sold to defray expenses.” The laundry list itself is an innocent looking document enough. It isn’t nearly formidable in appearance as is the list of one of Anaconda’s own laundries that is, it isn’t at first glance. When one conies to look at the thing more closely, however, it soon discovers these interesting quotations- Shirts, starched, 75 cents: collars. 2 cents; cuffs, per pair. 00 rents: undershirts. 3.j cents: night shirts, n’n cent^; overalls, 50 cents; jumpers. 50 cents: socks, per pair, 15 cents; pants, $1 to $2. and other things in proportion. [ Thursday, December 11, 1913 Janesville, Wisconsin, The Janeville Daily Gazette > [@](#): > > One splendid little gift for the woman who sends out her laundry is a laundry list made into a cushion. Cut a square of white cloth as large as wiil go into a typewriter, and print a list of articles with numbers up to ten opposite, making as complete a list as you can. Make this into a plain flat cushion, edging it with a mw of fancy glass-headed pins. When sorting the linen place a pin in the correct number opposite the article. This is one of the easiest ways to keep a laundry list. An ad for the Dunkirk Laundry in the Dunkirk Evening Observer for Wednesday, November 17, 1915 quotes prices for items under the headings Women’s Laundry List, Men’s Laundry List, and Household Laundry List. A short story called “The Laundry List,” by Jessie Douglass, whose plot revolved around the title item was printed in a number of papers in 1929. There were 264 hits before 1930, some of them false hits because their character recognition software is awful. (I corrected many of the more obvious errors to make the quotes readable.) I didn’t go through all the pages, but there was nothing earlier than 1879 in hits from 50-100. There are numberous hits before 1900, though. These all seem to be literal uses of laundry list, so maybe the 1950s is when it started being used in a metaphorical sense. It’s easy to find metaphorical uses from that time. Tuesday, June 10, 1941 Warren, Pennsylvania, Warren Times-Mirror > [@](#): > > Fred Perry “I don’t want to tear down the game that built me up, but everybody knows the cost of of an amateur tennis touney. It’s $1400. The top three players have a certain price, the next three another price, and so on. Why, it’s like a laundry list.” Thursday, April 20, 1950 Walla Walla, Washington, Walla Walla Union Bulletin > [@](#): > > A diplomat remarked Thursday that the agenda thus far developed 'looks like somebody’s laundry list." He said it does not indicate policy positions of any of > the countries nor does it exclude discussion of other topics. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/18 "2007-04-07T23:05:33Z")
I used them on a regular basis when I was in the Army. See [DA Form 2886](http://www.army.com/forms/pdf/A2886.PDF) (PDF). ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/19 "2007-04-08T00:45:36Z")
Looks like **Exapno Mapcase** beat me to it. The fact is that a lot of the origin dates for words and phrases in the standard reference sources are wildly inaccurate. Now that databases of old books, newspapers and so forth are going online, it’s getting fairly easy to track many of these things in ways that were never possible before. I’ve personally traced on more accurate origins of a variety of terms and phrases – including “say uncle,” “bloody mary” (the drink), and so forth – on my own and in association with an author specializing in words and their histories, and so far the experts have just been wrong on most of them. Doesn’t really give one a lot of confidence in the opinions of experts in general, but at least the future of research in this and other fields looks a lot brighter. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033/20 "2007-04-15T18:49:03Z")
Reference Laundries being a recent phenonomem they were a common institution in ancient Rome. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-laundry-list/399033.md?page=2)