# Origin of 'mac and cheese'. Sorta. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460 "2009-11-13T17:52:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/1 "2009-11-13T17:52:07Z")
I recall hearing the term “mac and cheese” in common parlance only in the past ten years or so. For all the time before that, I heard “macaroni and cheese.” So. . . When did the term “mac and cheese” start becoming commonplace? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/2 "2009-11-14T00:40:37Z")
The term “mac & cheese” to mean “macaroni and cheese” starts out life much earlier than either you or I would have thought. But, you’re probably correct that it doesn’t make it into the mainstream until the last 20 years or so. I can find grocery store ads for "mac & cheese _loaf"_ :eek: as early as 1933. I’m sure it must have been a depression special. You could buy “mac & cheese” dinners in a box at the grocery store by the late 1930s. Now, whether the average person called it that, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/3 "2009-11-14T01:22:34Z")
As a kid in the 60’s, it was referred as mac 'n cheese in our house. It wasn’t the crap out of a box either, it was baked in the oven and had the brown crispy top we would fight over. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/4 "2009-11-14T04:22:19Z")
I’ve never heard it called anything else. I suppose that only covers 20 years though. I wouldn’t touch the stuff till college. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/5 "2009-11-14T15:21:46Z")
As a Brit, the use of the term here confused me when I joined; I assumed it must be something involving a Big Mac with cheese, so why didn’t people just say ‘cheeseburger’? In our family when I was growing up, it was just macaroni - the cheese was assumed. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/6 "2009-11-14T15:38:46Z")
'Merkin here, but I have the same recollection as the fellow just above. As a kid in the 60’s we called the Kraft stuff in the blue box just “macaroni”. And ate it twice a week with lots of ketchup. Some time in the, I’d guess, 1980s I began to hear it called “mac n’ cheese”. Which is what I call it now. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/7 "2009-11-14T16:07:18Z")
And what about spaghetti and meatballs turning into just plain ‘spaghetti’? When did that contraction come about? ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/8 "2009-11-14T18:36:15Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > And what about spaghetti and meatballs turning into just plain ‘spaghetti’? When did that contraction come about? Well, it doesn’t always come with meatballs. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/9 "2009-11-15T02:47:18Z")
Hearing “mac n’ cheese” makes me think of lazy, poor people. If you’re so lazy that you can’t call something what it is, then no wonder you live in the ghetto. Yes, I know that that’s not “proper”; I can’t help what I think in this respect. It’s still less grating than “Kraft Dinner” which my Ontario neighbors seem to use to refer to _all_ macaroni and cheese dishes, whether they’re “Kraft Dinner” or not (the term being the Canadian branding of our familiar but mediocre “Kraft Macaroni and Cheese Dinner” which is not a dinner but a side dish). “Spaghetti” is never a substitute for “spaghetti and meatballs.” It’s the pasta only. Not all spaghetti dishes have meatballs, and there are dozens of different sauces and preparations. If someone asked me if I wanted spaghetti, it’d be a completely meaningless question without knowing how it was being offered. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/10 "2009-11-15T03:55:24Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > And what about spaghetti and meatballs turning into just plain ‘spaghetti’? When did that contraction come about? Where do people say just spaghetti when they mean spaghetti and meatballs? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/11 "2009-11-15T04:28:40Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > I recall hearing the term “mac and cheese” in common parlance only in the past ten years or so. For all the time before that, I heard “macaroni and cheese.” Wow. Really? Mac and Cheese has been common for a really long time. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/12 "2009-11-15T18:52:05Z")
Yeah, yeah, I know. You can make up the most obscure rendering of anything commonplace, and someone somewhere will say, “That’s the way I’ve always heard it.” I think **samclem** sorta bolsters my point that the widespread usage is of relatively recent vintage. Personally, I’d point to an episode of “Friends”–in which Joey played in a TV program called “Mac and C.H.E.E.S.E.”–as the introduction of it into popular lexicon. Eh, that’s as good as anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/13 "2009-11-15T19:25:38Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > Personally, I’d point to an episode of “Friends”–in which Joey played in a TV program called “Mac and C.H.E.E.S.E.”–as the introduction of it into popular lexicon. Eh, that’s as good as anything else. I rather doubt that, since I recall hearing it in New York well before “Friends” came out. The fact that you haven’t heard it until recently strikes me as particularly odd considering your location, since I had always thought of “mac and cheese” as being a Southern thing. But maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/14 "2009-11-16T00:16:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I had always thought of “mac and cheese” as being a Southern thing. But maybe not. The food, yes. That exact phrase, though, until the past 15 or so years, not so much. But I could be wrong. My family was so poor that “blue box macaroni” was somewhat of a delicacy on those occasions when we had it. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/15 "2009-11-16T02:02:42Z")
While I admit that true goulash doesn’t have macaroni, I grew up eating a goulash dish made with elbow macoroni pasta. We simply called it goulash. In my army days, though, everyone – including the dining facility – tended to call it “chilimac.” That’s just as offensive to my ears as “mac and cheese.” /me shudders. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/16 "2009-11-16T05:29:31Z")
isn’t goulash specific towards the hungarian recipe? “chilimac” to me means loads of tomato paste, which isn’t goulashy. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/17 "2009-11-16T05:53:38Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > Personally, I’d point to an episode of “Friends”–in which Joey played in a TV program called “Mac and C.H.E.E.S.E.”–as the introduction of it into popular lexicon. Eh, that’s as good as anything else. Except that that joke doesn’t make any _sense_ unless ‘mac ‘n’ cheese’ is already in common usage. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/18 "2009-11-16T13:55:14Z")
Growing up in NZ, we would have “Macaroni Cheese”, in the same way we would have “Cauliflower Cheese”. Spaghetti most generally referred to a tinned spaghetti with tomato sauce (from Watties). Anything else was Spaghetti Bolognaise, or Spaghetti and Meatball, and so on. Si ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/19 "2009-11-16T14:36:25Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > If you’re so lazy that you can’t call something what it is, then no wonder you live in the ghetto. A gentle reminder. This is the General Questions forum. We have a rule here that says: > [@](#): > > Political, religious, or professional jabs, hijacks, and trolling prohibited. The purpose of General Questions is to get factual questions answered. In order to accomplish this we need the threads to stay on topic. We tolerate some joking, but that is generally acceptable only after the question has been answered. Please do not race to a thread to post that hilarious one-liner in response to the thread title, and don’t drive by just to drop in an anecdote that doesn’t answer the question. If you want to be funny while contributing to the thread, go for it. We tolerate some discussion of tangentially related factual information. We don’t tolerate political, religious, professional or personal jabs or insults. In case it’s somehow not clear: Trolling isn’t permitted at all. [Factual Questions Rules & FAQs - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=466202) I’m sure you didn’t intend to offend anybody, but I hope you can see how some folks might nevertheless be offended by a statement like that. Please try to keep it factual. No warning issued. **Gfactor** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460/20 "2009-11-16T19:18:42Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > I’m sure you didn’t intend to offend anybody, but I hope you can see how some folks might nevertheless be offended by a statement like that. I won’t pretend to be offended, but I think his statement was a wee bit misguided. I grew up in the Midwest in a large custom built home on a couple of acres with two professional parents. I don’t think anyone would consider it the “getto”, but we called this dish Mac 'n Cheese. We did so because my parents who lived in rural Iowa called it this. If you added a can of Hormell Chili it was “Spa-chee.” I think this was unique to my family because I don’t know anyone else who called it this. My point is we didn’t call it Mac because we were too lazy to say Macaroni… it was just the name. I did know what Macaroni was, and I even knew that it was Elbow Macaroni that was used in the dish called Mac 'n Cheese. We also call my daughter by a four letter name that is contained in her eight letter “official” name. Again it isn’t because I’m lazy (well, I am but it isn’t the reason here) and we aren’t from the getto… it is just her name. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-mac-and-cheese-sorta/517460.md?page=2)