# Origin of 'Maggie's Drawers' **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2001, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087 "2001-10-17T22:47:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Daowajan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Daowajan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daowajan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/1 "2001-10-17T22:47:26Z")
My dad yells this when running red lights. He swears it’s an old sailor expression. Does anyone have any clue how it originated, what it means, or how it was used? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/2 "2001-10-17T23:32:00Z")
I’ve (vicariously) heard the term used by U.S. Marines during target practice. A spotter holds up a _red circle_ to signify that the shooter has missed the target. This is called “Maggie’s Drawers.” [sub]Maybe a joke about using panties as a signal-flag?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/3 "2001-10-17T23:38:14Z")
1. I know that this term goes back at least to the early sixties. 2. _Underpants._ Just for **jarbabyj** , should she peek. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/4 "2001-10-17T23:43:09Z")
Not exclusively navy but an old military gunnery expression in general. When a shooter missed the entire target completely, a large white flag was waved by the monitor at (or in the case of navy gunnery, near) the target site. The flag had to be big so it could be seen by the people on the firing line a good distance away. The large white flag was reputed to be as big and white as “Maggie’s Drawers (underwear),” a probably fictional individual of large size and an intimate of some legendary gunnery chief’s (or sergeant’s) acquaintance. The term evolved to just referring to the flag as “Maggie’s Drawers”. Among old time military types, it means to miss something completely. May you never shoot Maggie’s Drawers. TV ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/5 "2001-10-17T23:56:26Z")
Hmmm. **TV** , a white flag certainly makes more sense as “Maggie’s Drawers,” but I’m sure the signal was a red circle. (Which seems to me to be the association with the red light, unless **Daowajan** ’s dad means that he “missed the red light completely.” Now I’d like to know what is the conventional signal – Pure white flag or red circle on white or something else entirely? Does it vary in different branches of the service? ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/6 "2001-10-18T00:35:38Z")
**Larry Mudd** The red circle is a relatively recent innovation and I believe tends to be used for small arms’ fire. I believe the red circle is that spot used to highlight the points scored by putting the circle in back of black target between it and the white background. When the target is missed, I believe the circle is moved in front of the target. But Maggie’s Drawers date back to at least World War I. I also know it was prevalant in World War II. For a film reference, I vaguely remember that it is illustrated in the film “The Cain Mutiny”. Trust me on this, it was a white flag. It might mean something different now, but it originally started out as a white flag. My father, a career military man during World War II, would use the same reference when someone completely missed the mark. TV ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/7 "2001-10-18T01:06:05Z")
I agree white makes more sense, but I’m sure I’ve heard “Red Circle” more often. (Not that it comes up very much.) A cursory peek at the web turns up this [vietnam era poem](http://members.home.net/jacksonday/homecome.htm) that seems to indicate a solid red flag: > [@](#): > > How can I tell her > about the helicopter that was coming in > when on board we heard the sound > it sounded like a firing range > at the wrong end > like a long time ago back at camp when we kept the scores > and it was great fun to signal “maggie’s drawers” > with the red flag when they missed > only this time it wasn’t maggie’s drawers. And here’s a [WWII-era reference](http://cc.matsuyama-u.ac.jp/~shiki/shiki-tanka.archive/0004/0113.html) that indicates a solid red flag, as well. > [@](#): > > ``` > When the men in the pit pulled my target down there were only eight > > ``` > > holes, all direct hits; but since they were looking for sixteen holes, > that indicated eight total misses. A red flag on a large pole, called > “Maggie’s drawers,” was waved once for each complete miss. For a close > miss, a black circular disc was held over the hole to show where the > miss went. But if one missed the entire square yard target, Maggie’s > drawers were waved. Woe unto the man whose misses were thus advertised, > for he would be the butt of jokes for weeks. And [another:](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/3903/maggie.html) > [@](#): > > That was in the early 1940’s > where violence in film was in its infancy, so from my early beginning > I was definitely not found of violence and whether or not I could > shoot anyone was a mystery to me. I just didn’t like the idea. > But at basic training in Fort Campbell, Kentucky I was quite a shot > with an M1, that is I thought I was until I found out that the persons > pulling and marking my target were my friends; they gave me a high > score instead of waving the red flag, which they swore I deserved > and represented a total miss of the target - a “Maggie’s Drawers.” Aha! Here’s one [confirmation](http://www.vietvet.org/usmcdict.htm) that a **red circle** was used sometimes: > [@](#): > > MAGGIE’S DRAWERS: red disc used on the rifle range to signify missing the target. I’d be interested to know what **D** ’s dad connects it with. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/8 "2001-10-18T02:29:56Z")
**Larry Mudd** you have clearly out-evidenced me. I stand corrected. TV [fixed coding] [Edited by bibliophage on 10-18-2001 at 04:37 AM] ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/9 "2001-10-18T02:47:33Z")
Whoo-hoo. I’m right! 😉 Actually, **TV** , it makes sense to me that it would have been a white flag at some point. But I can’t resist one more [cite](http://www.mum.org/words.html), from an unlikely source: [The Museum of Menstruation.](http://www.mum.org/) [sub](I started a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=93099) about it a while back.)[/sub] > [@](#): > > **Maggie’s drawers** Doesn’t mean menstruation, but: on the military rifle range, when the shooter misses the target the spotter in the pit waves a red flag indicating a miss. That red flag is called “Maggie’s Drawers.” :eek: It all begins to make sense… I’ll never think of “spotting” in the same way again! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/10 "2001-10-18T02:48:12Z")
Lighter cites it first in print from 1936. It certainly referred to just what **Larry Mudd** said. It evidently was from a ribald song, which obviously came before 1936. An article in the 1942 version of _American Speech_ said > [@](#): > > …common army slang; taken from an obscene song, “Those Old Red Flanned Drawers that Maggie Wore,”…dating from 1921 or earlier–probably from the First World War. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/11 "2001-10-18T03:21:39Z")
Hey, that’s great! Can anyone provide the lyrics? The closest I could find was this [site](http://www.squaddiesongs.f2s.com/nfsoldierssongs.html) that has plenty of bawdy soldiers songs… …but only a passing reference to “Those Old Red Flannel Drawers That Maggie Wore.” [sub]I’m still curious to know what **Daowajan** ’s dad is referring to when he yells, though. That the light’s _red_, or that he _missed_ it? Come on, **Daowajan** , don’t you check this board every seven minutes like the rest of us compulsive types?[/sub] 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Daowajan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Daowajan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daowajan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/12 "2001-10-18T04:51:51Z")
It’s a reference to the light being red, I think. He’s not too sure himself; I e-mailed him this thread. And I DO normally check this board every seven minutes, but I’m home on fall break, and I’ve got to share an unstable computer with my little sister. I think I’ll start a pit thread about her computer. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/13 "2001-10-18T06:24:38Z")
I remember going to the ranges in Quantico in the late 50’s and that it was hard work tending the targets. What kept our spirits up was hoping for a “Maggie’s drawers”. Although I remember the circle on a stick, “Maggie’s drawers” was still a flag on a stick and it would be waved accompanied by the cheers of everyone behind the targets. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/14 "2011-04-12T23:42:35Z")
My dad and I talked about shooting last weekend. He said they still used a white flag in basic training in the late 40’s. Switched to a red one in the 50’s. He was in the military 22 years. I wondered if they still use this term in the modern military? ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/15 "2011-04-12T23:48:12Z")
They were in Maggie’s Dresser, as of this morning. —Maggie ---
**Author:** ![janis\_and\_c0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janis_and_c0/32/21_2.png) [@janis\_and\_c0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janis_and_c0)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/16 "2011-04-13T11:33:13Z")
It took 10 years for them to get there?? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Vietvet1968](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/67e7ee/32.png) [@Vietvet1968](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vietvet1968)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/17 "2012-07-09T01:24:24Z")
> [@Daowajan](#): > > My dad yells this when running red lights. He swears it’s an old sailor expression. Does anyone have any clue how it originated, what it means, or how it was used? Vietvet1968 Active Marine 1965-1970! At Parrish Island Boot Camp when a recruit missed the entire target, it ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/18 "2012-07-10T21:06:39Z")
Possible spam reported in hopefully humorous manner. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/19 "2012-07-10T21:32:10Z")
In my youth and strength when rifle marksmanship was sometimes tested over a known distance range with fixed paper targets the size of a bed sheet, the crew in the trench underneath of the target would mark the point of the bullet strike with a red disk on a pole so that the shooter and the shooter’s coach/spotter could adjust fire. If the shooter missed the bed sheet target altogether the crew waived a flag on a pole to monument the failure. The flag was “Maggie’s Drawers,” and its appearance was accompanied by whooping and guffawing all up and down the firing line. The whole “Maggie’s Drawers” culture with its public humiliation of poor shots pretty much disappeared with the universal use of pop-up silhouette targets on train fire ranges where the emphases was in estimating ranges and adjusting aim to hit the target quickly rather than the precision musketry of the known distance bull’s-eye ranges. ---
**Author:** ![Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harvey_The_Heavy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087/20 "2012-07-12T12:17:51Z")
Former USMC here, late eighties. On the range we had a metal disc on a stick, about a foot in diameter, that was red on one side and white on the other. The white was shown only for a bullseye (a 5), held up over the center of the target. A 4 was the red side over the center, 2 and 3 were the red side held up on either side of the target (I now can’t remember which was which), and a miss was the red side swept across the target left to right, and was still called Maggie’s Drawers, even though we didn’t use flags at all. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-maggies-drawers/88087.md?page=2)