# Origin of Nigger? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 9, 2005, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385 "2005-10-09T07:06:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Flipshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f19dbf/32.png) [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/41 "2005-10-10T19:39:49Z")
On the difference discussed betwen ni-grah/ni-gruh and ni-grr… My relatives in the deep Deep South who spoke a 1920s-1940s-ish version of the white Southern dialect and who didn’t move around enough to pick up regional variations (I don’t think) used both nig-ruh and nig-gr depending on whether they were speaking neutrally (ni-gruh) or with derision (ni-gr). So while the differences may have originally been regional, by early 20th century they were two distinct words with distinct connotations. Cite: Some old folks I used to talk to 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/42 "2005-10-11T00:56:34Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > **JRDelirious** , I’m afraid I can’t credit one iota of your speculations. They all sound wrong to me in every detail of history. Oh, well. I’ll keep it for convenient reference if ever in need of a totally bogus explanation for something anyway… ---
**Author:** ![martiebaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@martiebaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martiebaby)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/43 "2013-06-30T14:00:49Z")
> [@WaPo](#): > > Let’s turn first to etymology. Nigger is derived from the Latin word for the color black, niger. According to the Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, it did not originate as a slur but took on a derogatory connotation over time. Nigger and other words related to it have been spelled in a variety of ways, including niggah, nigguh, niggur, and niggar. When John Rolfe recorded in his journal the first shipment of Africans to Virginia in 1619, he listed them as “negars.” A 1689 inventory of an estate in Brooklyn, New York, made mention of an enslaved “niggor” boy. The seminal lexicographer Noah Webster referred to Negroes as “negers.” (Currently some people insist upon distinguishing nigger—which they see as exclusively an insult—from nigga, which they view as a term capable of signaling friendly salutation.) In the 1700s niger appeared in what the dictionary describes as “dignified argumentation” such as Samuel Sewall’s denunciation of slavery, The Selling of Joseph. No one knows precisely when or how niger turned derisively into nigger and attained a pejorative meaning. We do know, however, that by the end of the first third of the nineteenth century, nigger had already become a familiar and influential insult. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/nigger.htm](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/nigger.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/44 "2013-06-30T14:57:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean by “'reverse cause and effect.” Do you mean you think that the **Taureg** word for “river” is somehow derived from the Latin for “black?” We’re about nothing if not nitpicks. It’s spelled “Tuareg” or “Touareg”. Once is a mispelling, twice is grounds for a good lashing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/45 "2013-06-30T15:17:15Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > We’re about nothing if not nitpicks. It’s spelled “Tuareg” or “Touareg”. Once is a mispelling, twice is grounds for a good lashing. 😉 Phew. **Colibri** can stop holding his breath at last. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/46 "2013-06-30T15:46:05Z")
So Debuhdee, like any of the answers so far? ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/47 "2013-06-30T17:02:11Z")
I don’t know about the OP, but this is a very good example of the SDMB at its finest. Fascinating work! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/48 "2013-06-30T17:09:02Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > So Debuhdee, like any of the answers so far? He’s not answering. I think someone shot the debuhdee. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/49 "2013-06-30T17:11:57Z")
Not me. I’ll confess to shooting the sheriff, but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/50 "2013-06-30T17:35:00Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > He’s not answering. I think someone shot the debuhdee. Well crafted, sir. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/51 "2013-06-30T17:35:18Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > So Debuhdee, like any of the answers so far? He only ever made that one post, so I don’t know if he’s been back here. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/52 "2013-06-30T17:38:08Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > So Debuhdee, like any of the answers so far? He didn’t stick around much. You never can count on 'em, y’know? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/53 "2013-06-30T18:49:00Z")
> [@EmilyG](#): > > He only ever made that one post, so I don’t know if he’s been back here. His only logon was to make that single post over seven years ago, so evidently not. ---
**Author:** ![Norvaal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d9b06d/32.png) [@Norvaal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norvaal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/54 "2013-07-02T01:52:58Z")
By the way, the words “niggard” and “niggardly” have nothing to do with the N-word; they have completely different etymologies. The N-word, as mentioned many times above, is a vulgarized version of a Latin word; the two I mentioned have Nordic origins, and they refer to a person who is cheap, not black. It might not be in good taste to use these words, though. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/55 "2013-07-02T04:08:28Z")
> [@Norvaal](#): > > By the way, the words “niggard” and “niggardly” have nothing to do with the N-word; they have completely different etymologies. The N-word, as mentioned many times above, is a vulgarized version of a Latin word; the two I mentioned have Nordic origins, and they refer to a person who is cheap, not black. It might not be in good taste to use these words, though. [There’s a whole wikipedia entry on the subject](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22) BTW, gotta admire someone who joins the SDMB to resurrect an 8-year old thread by posting a link to a 12-year-old article. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/56 "2013-07-02T09:57:03Z")
Might as well use this opportunity to add to the thread that the Schwarzenegger - black plowman etymology is probably wrong: > [@](#): > > Schwarzenegger is a German surname that means person from Schwarzenegg, which is both a town in Switzerland and a place in Land Salzburg in Austria. “Schwarzen” means “black,” and “egg” (from the same root as the German word “ecke” for “corner”) refers to a ridge, e.g., Eggli (long ridge), Eggiman (lives on a ridge), and Eggler (farms on a ridge). > **[Schwarzenegger (surname)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzenegger_(surname))** > > Schwarzenegger (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}German pronunciation: \[ˈʃvaʁtsn̩ˌʔɛɡɐ\]) is a German surname that means person from Schwarzenegg, which is both a village in Switzerland (currently split between the municipalities of Unterlangenegg and Oberlangenegg) and a place in Land Salzburg in Austria. "Schwarzen" means "black", a... ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/58 "2017-06-07T16:50:07Z")
> [@Grady\_Jr](#): > > the Original meaning defines Nigger as , An Ignorant person, the old Websters Dictionary decried nigger as, " Disrespectful person who lies cheats an Steals, an No Color is mentioned. Now please set the meaning Right, Please. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/59 "2017-06-07T16:52:50Z")
> [@Grady\_Jr](#): > > the Original meaning defines Nigger as , An Ignorant person, the old Websters Dictionary decried nigger as, " Disrespectful person who lies cheats an Steals, an No Color is mentioned. Now please set the meaning Right, Please. [Etyomological Fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/60 "2017-06-07T17:00:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Cite? That ain’t gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385/61 "2017-06-07T17:06:08Z")
> [@Grady\_Jr](#): > > the Original meaning defines Nigger as , An Ignorant person, the old Websters Dictionary decried nigger as, " Disrespectful person who lies cheats an Steals, an No Color is mentioned. Now please set the meaning Right, Please. You’re Whitman Mayo’s son, aren’t you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-nigger/325385.md?page=4)