# Origin of "OK" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [January 10, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769 "2003-01-10T17:13:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_Pferdner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a587f6/32.png) [@Paul\_Pferdner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_Pferdner)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/1 "2003-01-10T17:13:55Z")
I am shocked to see someone as perspicacious as Our Cecil perpetuate the largely discredited origin of the ubiquitous “OK” as an abbreviation of “Oll Korrect”. This is only one of many possible origins of that phrase, and respected etymologists have found no evidence to favor this one over any of the others. Shame, Cecil, for passing on this doubtful origin as fact! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/2 "2003-01-10T17:59:33Z")
**Paul**. Welcome to the boards. The powers that be request that you link to the column being discussed, just to make it easier for people who are reading your reply to read the original column for themselves. If you’re referring to Cecil’s original column about the origin of O.K., then the link is [What does “OK” stand for?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_250.html) You’re probably referring to his column of today [What is leetspeek?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030110.html) wherein he tangentially refers to his previous discussion of O.K. Could you please list some of the “respected etymologists” who disagree with Cecil’s interpretation? After you do that, I’ll try to list some other respected etymologist who agree with Cecil and Allen Walker Read. If the theory is “largely discredited,” I was probably asleep in that seminar. I’ll admit to being a rather “newbie” word maven, but am always willing to learn. And I’ve been proven wrong regulary. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/3 "2003-01-10T22:30:57Z")
The _Oxford English Dictionary_ is, for my money, the gold standard of English etymology. They say > [@](#): > > … > From the detailed evidence provided by A. W. Read it seems clear that O.K. first appeared as a jocular alteration of the initial letters of all correct (i.e. orl korrect) in 1839, and that in 1840 it was used as an election slogan for ‘Old Kinderhook’ (see sense A b). > … > Other suggestions, e.g. that O.K. represents the Choctaw oke ‘it is’, or French au quai, or that it derives from a word in the West African language Wolof via slaves in the southern States of America, all lack any form of acceptable documentation ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/4 "2003-01-10T22:45:38Z")
If the “oll korrect” origin has been discredited, nobody bothered to inform any of these generally reliable etymology websites: [http://www.wordorigins.org/wordoro.htm](http://www.wordorigins.org/wordoro.htm) > **[World Wide Words: OK](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-oka1.htm)** > > Where does 'OK' come from? [http://www.word-detective.com/back-q.html#ok](http://www.word-detective.com/back-q.html#ok) > **[Penguin Random House](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com?date=19991020)** > > Committed to publishing great books, connecting readers and authors globally, and spreading the love of reading. [http://www.takeourword.com/et\_n-p.html#OK](http://www.takeourword.com/et_n-p.html#OK) ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/5 "2003-01-11T01:46:10Z")
[http://www.briggs13.fsnet.co.uk/book/n%20&%20o.htm](http://www.briggs13.fsnet.co.uk/book/n%20&%20o.htm) > [@](#): > > OK: If something is OK then it is acceptable. There have been numerous suggestions as to the origin of this one. Some believe it came from the abbreviation of Orrin Kendall biscuits, which American soldiers ate during the civil war. Others say OK is short for Aux Cayes, a Haitian port that American sailors praised for its rum. Another legend suggests the word comes from Old Keokuk, a Native American tribal chief who was said to have signed treaties with his initials. Others say that it stands for ‘All Correct.’, but then why not ‘AC’? Yet others suggest the French “au quai” meaning “at dock”, and therefore at last safe from the ravages of the open sea. > What is known is that OK first appeared in print in the spring of 1839 in the Boston Morning Post. By that stage it must have been a well established phrase and was further popularised in the election campaign of 1840 when Martin Van Buren, a native of Kinderhook, NY, popularly referred to as “Old Kinderhook” - OK for short - stood for re-election. ‘OK’ was widely used and abused by both sides. > There are words like OK in many other languages. In the West African language of Wolof, “waw kay” means “yes.” In Choctaw, “okeh” means “indeed”, or “may it be so”. Of course, there’s also the Scottish “Auch Aye”! > The truth is that no one knows the origin. The US civil war biscuits are ruled out because they came into being 25 years or so after the phrase. It probably comes from several sources, and I like the Choctaw version. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/6 "2003-01-11T01:58:28Z")
What would be the purpose of that post, **barbitu8**?? The information provided by the person who has created that website shows that he is a histopathologist who has an interest in word origins. Hardly someone to use for the purpose of establishing the “straight dope.” Certainly not in the category of “respected entymologist.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/7 "2003-01-11T17:39:54Z")
No matter what his profession, he has researched the topic, and I submitted that link as to represent a different opinion. Often different sources will present the same info because they are taken from the same source. His arguments seem valid to me. I have not checked the other links yet - but I will - but so far I tend to agree with him. Why OK, when AK, or even AC, would make more sense. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/8 "2003-01-11T18:03:00Z")
:o I guess I should have read the links. It appears that the histopathologist missed the fact that it was the fad at that time for crazy abbreviations, which certainly lends much credence to that theory, esp. because of the timing of Old Kinderhook the following year. However, those links also state that this is the accepted theory - until such time if ever that new material is turned up. ---
**Author:** ![hyjyljyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/0ea827/32.png) [@hyjyljyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hyjyljyj)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/9 "2003-01-13T00:17:42Z")
Chemical Trivia There are compounds called turates, one class of which is called barbiturate. We learned to pronounce this word with the emphasis on the third syllable, to avoid having it fall on the ‘bitch’. The second r gets swallowed by so many speakers, much like the first r in February (e.g., Don McLean, American Pie), that many do not even realize it is there. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/10 "2003-01-15T18:05:19Z")
Interesting tangent, but I notice that _you_ spell hyjyljyjl without the final “L”. And it’s pronounced “Throat Warbler Mangrove”. (OK, it’s an overused joke on these boards, but still good dammit!) As for OK, nothing I’ve seen convinces me that Cecil’s answer is wrong. It started an abbreviation for the intentionally misspelled “oll korrect”, and Van Buren’s campaign slogan kept it from fading into obscurity. It seems there are many words and phrases like that, whose origins and reasons for continued existence are not the same. ---
**Author:** ![uDou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f08c70/32.png) [@uDou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uDou)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/11 "2003-01-22T06:45:29Z")
Ok, Ok, Ok, Ok! It still translates to the same thing,“OK.” ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/12 "2003-01-22T09:20:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by uDou \* > \*\*Ok, Ok, Ok, Ok! It still translates to the same thing,“OK.” \*\* Presumably you are referring to the thread you started in the In My Humble Opinion forum: [Not to offend, but to reccommend.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=158049) Nobody who replied in that thread used the word “crap”. You used that word yourself. The reason why people did not offer much advice to you in that thread was because your original post was unintelligible. Moderator **MEBuckner** politely explained that you should try to understand the forum titles before posting. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/13 "2003-01-22T10:52:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by barbitu8 \* > No matter what his profession, he has researched the topic, and I submitted that link as to represent a different opinion. Often different sources will present the same info because they are taken from the same source. His arguments seem valid to me. I have not checked the other links yet - but I will - but so far I tend to agree with him. \*\*Why OK, when AK, or even AC, would make more sense. \*\* _(my bold)_ This might be more use to the author of The Bedtime Browser website than to you, but Cecil pointed out in his column that OK was used instead of the more logical AC as an attempt at humour. Not funny to you or me perhaps, but no doubt the journalists of Boston were rolling around in the 1840s. Cecil also passes on some more examples from A. W. Read: > [@](#): > > Many of the abbreviated expressions were exaggerated misspellings, a stock in trade of the humorists of the day. One predecessor of OK was OW, “oll wright,” and there was also KY, “know yuse,” KG, “know go,” and NS, “nuff said.” ---
**Author:** ![uDou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f08c70/32.png) [@uDou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uDou)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-ok/147769/14 "2003-01-23T06:11:43Z")
Thanks for clearing that up for me everton. Next time I will look more closely at the nature of the fourm. I’ll be back later in the week to see what’s going on.