# Origin of phrase: "gin up" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 21, 2004, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364 "2004-10-21T07:24:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/1 "2004-10-21T07:24:05Z")
A friend and I were discussing the origin of the phrase “gin up,” meaning to concoct, devise, or improvise (a solution to a deficiency or other problem). For example: “We lacked a few ingredients that the recipe called for, so we just ginned up a little something from what we had on hand.” My friend is hoping that the etymology is related to _djinn_, suggesting the magical nature of the improvised solution. I speculate that the phrase is related to _engine_. But I can’t find anything in the _OED_ or the unabridged _Webster’s_ that suggests an etymology – in fact, the expression is conspicuously absent from both references. Any ideas? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/2 "2004-10-21T07:30:46Z")
Sure the phrase isn’t “_chin_ up”, i.e. keep your chin up, look ahead, be brave, overcome the problem at hand instead of moping, etc. ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/3 "2004-10-21T07:46:46Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Sure the phrase isn’t “_chin_ up”, i.e. keep your chin up, look ahead, be brave, overcome the problem at hand instead of moping, etc. There is a phrase _chin up_, but it’s not the one that I’m asking about. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/4 "2004-10-21T07:56:06Z")
My American Heritage says that the transitive verb “gin” comes from “Middle English _gin_, short for _engin_, ENGINE.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/5 "2004-10-21T08:49:13Z")
[Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) concurs; ‘gin’ = contraption, device, mechanism, en **gin** e. - Think Heath Robinson or Rube Goldberg and ‘gin up’=improvise makes perfect sense. I predict, however, that your friend will unwaveringly stick to his preferred etymology - that’s the way it usually works. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/6 "2004-10-21T12:42:32Z")
There is a device called a gin pole that is used to hoist and mount an antenna on top of a tower. I don’t know where the name came from. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/7 "2004-10-21T12:46:57Z")
I always thought it referred to the idea that in prohibition people made gin often referred to as “bathtub” gin as an alchol to drink. It was made out whatever they could come up with and some outrageous looking distilleries. Think M_A_S\*H Hawkeye was making gin in the _Swamp._. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/8 "2004-10-21T12:55:10Z")
my websters has two different main definition for gin. the first is the verb gin short for ginnin meaning to begin. the second is the noun gin, a modified version of engine which refers to a mechanical device (ie: a cotton gin) ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/9 "2004-10-21T12:56:38Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > There is a device called a gin pole that is used to hoist and mount an antenna on top of a tower. I don’t know where the name came from. It comes from the 2nd definition I posted. A subset of this NOUN is a machine used to move heavy objects. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/10 "2004-10-21T13:13:42Z")
I’d always assumed the ‘gin’ related to the card game of the same name. So to ‘Gin Up’ would be similar to ‘ante up’. But maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/11 "2004-10-21T13:53:38Z")
Keep in mind that “engine” meant “device” before there were modern steam or internal combustion engines. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/12 "2004-10-22T02:36:39Z")
This same question had a lot of comments over at the American Dialect Society mailing list over the last three years. There seems to be room for multiple points of view. There seems to be a British version of the phrase and a separate, distinct American one, if not two. I’ll try to post something clearer later. ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/13 "2004-10-22T04:36:46Z")
**t-keela** , how is the second gin pronounced? The same ‘g’ as in the first, or hard as in begin? ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/14 "2004-10-22T11:11:28Z")
> [@MaryEFoo](#): > > **t-keela** , how is the second gin pronounced? The same ‘g’ as in the first, or hard as in begin? 1.) gin, 'gin\ _vb._ to start again (with a hard G pronunciation) archaic: BEGIN 2.) gin, 'jin\ _n._ (mechanical device) a. snare or trap, b. a machine for raising heavy objects, c. cotton gin 3.) gin, 'jin\ \*n.[/] (short for genever) bitter distilled alcohol origin the Netherlands - The last definition (3) of **gin** is used in the US to often describe alcohol that is homemade using a concoction of variable sources using often ingenious techniques. \*If the OP was referring to moving or raising an object, he could very well have been referring to the (2)nd definition of **gin** as I have heard it used this way a few times. I own a wench truck and the cable from the wench travel through a pulley suspended from an A-frame to lift the object. They are called “gin poles”. Usually it’ll be said “to wench something up” but I’ve heard some old timers say “gin it up”. \*The (1)st def. of **gin** would probably not IMHO be considered related to the OP. Although I have frequently heard folks use the term **gin** in conversation. As I have very little experience with the card game **gin** , I will leave that definition to the experts. Does that help at all? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/15 "2004-10-22T11:52:31Z")
> [@t-keela](#): > > I own a wench truck Haul a lot of wenches, do you? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/16 "2004-10-22T11:58:14Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Haul a lot of wenches, do you? :dubious: 😃 not as many as I used to when I had a winch truck… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mhdozier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@mhdozier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhdozier)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/17 "2011-04-28T06:16:40Z")
No one mentioned it, but there is either a) an alternate spelling of the same phrase or b) another phrase that is easily conflated - GEN UP Now, I couldn’t find the etymology on either for certain, but personally if the meaning you want is “concoct” then I favor some relationship with bathtub gin. Here are some links that should muddy the waters: [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:gin\_up](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:gin_up) (my favorite) > **[Definition of GIN](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gin)** > > a colorless alcoholic beverage made from distilled or redistilled neutral grain spirits flavored with juniper berries and aromatics (such as anise and caraway seeds); gin rummy; the act of laying down a full hand of matched cards in gin rummy… See... (the predominant answer given in this thread, I think) > **[Gin Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/GIN?r=66)** > > Gin definition, an alcoholic liquor obtained by distilling grain mash with juniper berries. See more. (scroll down to Word Origin & History) > **['Ginned up' - the meaning and origin of this phrase](https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/ginned-up.html)** > > The meaning and origin of the phrase 'Ginned up'. (best site I found for your question - besides S.D. obviously 🙂 And now for the other phrase “gen up”: > **[gen up](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/gen-up)** > > 1. to find out as much information as possible: 2. to find out as much… > **[gen up definition | English definition dictionary | Reverso](https://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/gen+up)** > > gen up translation in English - English Reverso dictionary, see also 'gen, -gen, gen., Gen.', examples, definition, conjugation > **[gen up](https://www.thefreedictionary.com/gen+up)** > > Definition, Synonyms, Translations of gen up by The Free Dictionary BTW a lot of dictionaries don’t have one phrase or the other (eg Cambridge doesn’t have “ginned up” but it does have “genned up”). Did you tell us how the phrase was used originally, I mean, when you heard/read it first? Which of the two definitions makes the most sense in that context? And another question to the forum: if the phrase comes from “begin” then would it be pronounced with a hard /g/ sound? (I was informed that this etymology is especially Scottish/Appalachian). ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/18 "2011-04-29T02:49:56Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > Keep in mind that “engine” meant “device” before there were modern steam or internal combustion engines. Indeed. Pretty much any relatively complex device, fuel or electric power not required, could be an “engine”. “Engines of war” were catapults, among other things. My favorite example of the earlier meaning of engine is from Gulliver’s Travels, when the Lilliputians, itemizing the contents of his pockets, don’t know what to make of his pocket watch and refer to it as a “great Engine”. I might have missed it, but I don’t think anyone here has mentioned the cotton gin yet. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/19 "2011-04-29T03:10:15Z")
> [@mhdozier](#): > > No one mentioned it, but there is either a) an alternate spelling of the same phrase or b) another phrase that is easily conflated - GEN UP Interesting. I’ve never encountered “gen up” that I remember. I imagine that makes it pretty exclusively English. But I don’t see anything in the definitions you cited that would make it a variant of gin up. > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I might have missed it, but I don’t think anyone here has mentioned the cotton gin yet. Check post #8. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364/20 "2011-04-29T13:26:20Z")
I guess I always assumed it came from the Prohibition era, when “bathtub gin” was concocted in an attempt to taste like the real thing. “Gin up” = “throw something together in an attempt.” But now that I think about it, I had no basis for that. I can see the “engine” origin… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-phrase-gin-up/270364.md?page=2)