# Origin of surnames **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 14, 2007, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921 "2007-01-14T09:21:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/41 "2007-01-16T16:49:31Z")
Okay; this is starting to get weird. I knew gals surnamed Raper and Honeyman in high school (no Goatmen - er, Goatmans; but that reminds me of the rather odd name Oatman). In my eternal quest to champion the name Fishmonger, I stole a page from **Ice Wolf** and ran the thing by Rootweb’s surname list. Nada. Were it not for that durned Paul Fishmonger of Wisconsin, I’d declare myself a winner. ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/42 "2007-01-16T17:41:07Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] A guy I went to school with had the last name Raper. Wow, what a horrible name. Marc [/QUOTE] And if he went to seminary, he could be Father Raper. 😃 How about executioner, hangman, killer? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/43 "2007-01-16T17:48:01Z")
[QUOTE=Blake] Well, there are numerous variations on healer such as Hickey, Hinkley and Healan and Helland that are fairly common surnames. [/QUOTE] Thanks, I did not know those were derived from “healer”. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/44 "2007-01-16T17:53:56Z")
[QUOTE=if6was9] And if he went to seminary, he could be Father Raper. 😃 How about executioner, hangman, killer? [/QUOTE] [Lots of UK folk named Killer.](http://surname.sofeminine.co.uk/w/surnames/surname-killer.html) (“Kil” or “Kill” being linked in with the Danes, IIRC.) ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/45 "2007-01-16T17:59:32Z")
A Molokan name [Mechnikov](http://www.doukhobor.org/Molokan.htm), meaning “swordsman” but also “executioner” ('cause of the sword bit, I’d say.) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/46 "2007-01-16T18:05:14Z")
It might not count (being French) but there is at least one family Cardinal in Quebec (the education minister in the late 70s/early 80s was Jean-Guy Cardinal). I once knew a family named Doctor. In general, I don’t think the learned professions generated surnames. I have never heard of a Mathematician, Magician, Astronomer (or Astrologer), (Al)chemist, Philosopher, or the like. And one of the more unusual names I have run across is Groundwater. Then there is Thomas Crapper. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/47 "2007-01-16T18:09:47Z")
[QUOTE=Hari Seldon] Then there is Thomas Crapper. [/QUOTE] But that was his name before he invented the flush toilet, yes? And the word “crap” referring to feces or the act of voiding the bowels exited already. So his surname was an unfortunate coincidence or possibly his inspiration! Or maybe he came from a long line of sanitary engineers! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/48 "2007-01-16T18:16:09Z")
A guy at work comes from an ethnic group in India that didn’t have surnames. So his grandfather chose a name for his profession…“Engineer”. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/49 "2007-01-17T02:43:00Z")
[QUOTE=Hari Seldon] In general, I don’t think the learned professions generated surnames. I have never heard of a Mathematician, Magician, Astronomer (or Astrologer), (Al)chemist, Philosopher, or the like. [/quote] Once again this stems from misunderstanding that the names of professions change over time. My local phone book lists 3 Maguses, 6 Vizards and 2 Magles. To that list you can also add Magister, Mages and several other variations, so these names have certainly not vanished. There were no profesisonal mathematicians or philosophers at this time in history. People employed to tally objects and sort money were a Clerk or a Counter, both common enough names. People such as Descartes needed to belong to aristocratic families simply to exist. Such people didn’t need surnames, they already had them. Astronomers and Alchemists were largely lumped together with wizards and maguses. These really weren’t distinct professions. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/50 "2007-01-17T10:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] What about Queen then? Same deal you think? (I happen to have a friend with the surname Queen) [/QUOTE] Add Roy (also as a first name), and Royal (like Ségolène Royal, the French candidate to the presidency) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/51 "2007-01-17T10:48:02Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Yes, Dr. Doctor is a doctor. Yes, I tease him about it. [/QUOTE] At least his name isn’t Dr. Spaceman. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/52 "2007-01-17T18:00:10Z")
[QUOTE=friedo] At least his name isn’t Dr. Spaceman. [/QUOTE] I’m waiting to see an SF novel or short story where a character’s name is something like Melvin Astronaut … ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/53 "2007-01-17T18:08:51Z")
[QUOTE=Ice Wolf] I do see some references to “Sandler”, though, referring to being both cobblers _and_ shoemakers. Might’ve been where I got that. [Here.](http://www.serve.com/shea/germusa/surnames.htm) [/QUOTE] Another name for a maker of shoes was Cordwainer. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/54 "2007-01-17T20:47:05Z")
So _that’s_ what a cordwainer was (I had a few ancesters with that occupation). Dictionary says the “cord” is short for cordovan leather, apparently a common shoe leather in days of yore. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/55 "2007-01-17T23:32:04Z")
[QUOTE=Ice Wolf] I’m waiting to see an SF novel or short story where a character’s name is something like Melvin Astronaut … [/QUOTE] Been done: Luke Skywalker (Luke Starkiller in the original scripts). ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/56 "2007-01-18T12:30:48Z")
My favorite name ever, from my time in the Solomon Islands, was a man named Opportunity Civilisation Kuku (pronounced “coocoo”) I didn’t know if it was really a name, or a comment on the modern world. Everyone called him “Oppo” … w. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/57 "2007-01-18T12:38:27Z")
[QUOTE=Blake] Been done: Luke Skywalker (Luke Starkiller in the original scripts). [/QUOTE] Yes, but that’s a translation into the _Star Wars_ universe. I’m waiting to see something from ours. As I think you, or someone else has said – original terms for occupations change. Some depending on period, others language, and others – which universe you’re in. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/58 "2007-01-18T13:00:38Z")
Hmm. If I took my job as a surname I’d be “Peter Planner.” No thank you. Especially there already is a man named Peter Planner who IS a planner. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/59 "2007-01-18T18:27:10Z")
Architect? Artist/Painter? ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921/60 "2007-01-18T20:07:36Z")
Not only have I seen the name Painter, I once heard of a guy with the snicker-producing name Dick Painter (we couldn’t decide if that was an avocation or an unusual tool used for painting). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-surnames/387921.md?page=4)