# Origin of Swag: "Secretly we are gay" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 3, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551 "2012-09-03T16:55:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/41 "2012-09-05T23:05:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, “gorp” isn’t an acronym? \ > > Huh, apparently it’s from a root word meaning “eat greedily”. I never knew. I learned that from an episode of Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/42 "2012-09-05T23:44:26Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > After reading the Urban Dictionary entry, I have a theory that “swag” in the meaning you’re talking about is a fairly recent fake etymology…It appears that this term became so common among this youth culture that some members of this culture became sick of it and made up a joke etymology for it…Does anyone here personally know of the word “swag” being used in any of these senses in contemporary youth culture? Sorry I didn’t point this out earlier for those unaware, but “swag” is currently what “the cool kids” are saying in America’s high schools to describe trendy fashion or media choices. If I had to guess, I’d say it started about a year ago. As with any pop phrase, there are those in the peer group that look down on its use. These people then make urban dictionary entries. Extra Credit: The other currently overused phrase is “YOLO” for “You only live once.” It’s commonly said after one announces that they’re going to do something stupid, such as eating dirt, slapping a cop, staring into the sun, or playing in traffic. Here’s a [parody](http://www.virtualshackles.com/343) of such usage, and some [disparaging remarks](http://i.imgur.com/onLCt.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Shacatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba8739/32.png) [@Shacatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shacatt)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/43 "2012-12-21T23:33:39Z")
Check out [Did the Word 'Swag' Originate as an Acronym? | Snopes.com](http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/swag.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/44 "2012-12-22T01:33:41Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I took it as Tarantino’s snide way of saying that of course it’s the only reason… Isn’t it? Or equally by announcing that the the thought of your mouth (with tongue knob) can be allowably imagined with a penis inside it. Correct me if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/45 "2012-12-22T02:10:57Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > People are always coming up with these [asinine false acronym](http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/40728) explanation for words. Those who fall for it usually are the same people who can’t figure out how to open a dictionary. Yeah, are any of these acronym etymologies for slang words ever true? I mean, I’m sure there’s some, but from “fuck” to “tip” to “shit” to–crap, I’m blanking on all the other common ones. OK, there’s “fubar” and “snafu” and those military ones, I suppose, which are true. And Urban Dictionary is fine for figuring out where current slang is. It’s a great resource, in my opinion. To trace etymologies, though, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/46 "2012-12-22T02:15:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > OK, there’s “fubar” and “snafu” and those military ones, I suppose, which are true. Don’t forget [OK](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/503/what-does-ok-stand-for) itself. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/47 "2012-12-22T02:25:49Z")
Swag may refer to: ``` Swag (album), a 2002 album by former Guns N' Roses guitarist, Gilby Clarke Swag (bedroll), an Australian bedroll Swag (motif), a garland Swag (novel), a 1976 crime novel Swag (TV series), a United Kingdom reality television series "Swag" (Ugly Betty episode), the eleventh episode of the television series Ugly Betty Swag, a type of window valance, often in combination with a full curtain underneath Swag, slang originating in the early 1800s[1] for stolen goods or booty; possibly carried by a swagman Swag, promotional items given away at trade fairs and events The Swag, a magazine published quarterly for Catholic priests and deacons of Australia ``` SWAG may refer to: ``` SWAG, Sourceware Archive Group, a free collection of classified source code and sample programs written in Pascal. SWAG, music of the musical group Bonde da Stronda SWAG, Special Warfare Group, an elite unit of the Naval Special Warfare Group of the Philippine Navy Scientific Wild-Ass Guess, slang for a rough estimate based on expert experience ``` ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/48 "2012-12-22T02:26:22Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Don’t forget [OK](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/503/what-does-ok-stand-for) itself. Yeah, “ole korrekt,” right? I didn’t think of it, because I don’t really think of it as an acronym, as it’s not pronounced as a single word and looks ( since its written in caps) as an abbreviation for something. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/49 "2012-12-22T12:02:42Z")
pulykamell writes: \> Yeah, are any of these acronym etymologies for slang words ever true? I mean, \> I’m sure there’s some, but from “fuck” to “tip” to “shit” to–crap, I’m blanking on \> all the other common ones. OK, there’s “fubar” and “snafu” and those military \> ones, I suppose, which are true. The rule I use is to check when the supposed acronym was created. If it’s before 1910, the story is almost always false. The stories that these etymologies tell you about “fuck”, “tip”, and “shit” supposedly happened sometime before the twentieth century when acronym were rare. Furthermore, we have previous cictations and reasonable etymologies for these words. The fad for acronyms didn’t start before World War I and didn’t really get rolling until World War II. ---
**Author:** ![steviep24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@steviep24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steviep24)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/50 "2012-12-22T13:27:44Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Swag just means swagger. It’s almost [500 years old](http://shakespeare.mit.edu/midsummer/full.html). It’s popularity with young people today, especially teens, can be attributed to The Black Eyed Peas. Example [here.](http://www.metrolyrics.com/boom-boom-pow-lyrics-black-eyed-peas.html) BEP uses swagger and the teens shorten it to swag. They also use swag to refer to anything that’s “in style” or “cool”. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/51 "2012-12-22T15:04:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Which pretty much establishes that it’s complete bullshit. Thank you. This board strongly poo-poo-ed using Wikipedia as a cite for years but over the last few months it seems like I see posters blithely citing urban Dictionary almost on a weekly basis. UD is whatever anyone submits and is bullshit with regards to legitimacy. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/52 "2012-12-22T15:40:05Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Thank you. This board strongly poo-poo-ed using Wikipedia as a cite for years but over the last few months it seems like I see posters blithely citing urban Dictionary almost on a weekly basis. > > UD is whatever anyone submits and is bullshit with regards to legitimacy. Do you have any clear examples? Everything I’ve ever looked up there has been spot-on, provided that you’re looking at definitions that are rated highly. It seems to me to be a very good snapshot of slang, as defined by the users of slang. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/53 "2012-12-22T18:15:16Z")
It depends what you use Urban Dictionary for. If you see a new piece of slang that you don’t understand, you can use it to understand that expression. It very likely will be correct about the meaning, particularly if there are a lot of votes for it. If it makes any claim about the etymology of the term, you should be very dubious. The average person knows what a word means when used in his own circle of acquaintances. He does not know the etymology of the word, and he has no training in distinguishing between wrong and right etymologies. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/54 "2012-12-22T18:45:59Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > It depends what you use Urban Dictionary for. If you see a new piece of slang that you don’t understand, you can use it to understand that expression. It very likely will be correct about the meaning, particularly if there are a lot of votes for it. If it makes any claim about the etymology of the term, you should be very dubious. The average person knows what a word means when used in his own circle of acquaintances. He does not know the etymology of the word, and he has no training in distinguishing between wrong and right etymologies. Yes, that’s exactly how I use it. (If you missed my first post, I did say that it’s “not so good” for etymologies.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/55 "2012-12-22T20:33:58Z")
Looks like this has been pretty thoroughly debunked already, but for anyone interested in coded language that was used by homosexuals in the old days then I found a brief piece by Bruce Vilanch (who must know a thing or two about being gay in Hollywood, although not in the '60s) in [a 1998 issue of the Advocate](http://books.google.com/books?id=cWMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA73&dq=%22friend%20of%20dorothy%22&pg=PA73#v=onepage&q&f=false). Note that the examples he gives are phrases like “friend of Dorothy” that could be taken to have a mundane meaning if overheard by someone who wasn’t in the know. Something like “SWAG = Secretly We Are Gay” is too stupid and obvious to be useful to people who were genuinely concerned about secrecy. In the 1960s bars and clubs known as gay meeting places were often raided by the police, so even with a more subtle code I think it’s extremely unlikely that there would have been many posters advertizing gay orgies. ---
**Author:** ![Rolando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@Rolando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rolando)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/56 "2012-12-23T16:12:30Z")
Scientific Wild-Ass Guess, slang for a rough estimate based on expert experience this is what we enganeers say when we really don’t know! ---
**Author:** ![dreaddormamo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/fbc32d/32.png) [@dreaddormamo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreaddormamo)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/57 "2013-05-01T21:15:47Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > This meme has been circulating twitter and [Facebook](http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Real-Meaning-of-Swag-Secretly-We-Are-Gay/100766106728435): > > “The term swag was invented in the early 60’s by a group of gay men in Hollywood. It stands for ‘secretly we are gay’ and was most frequently used as code on posters announcing gay orgies.” > > I’m no etymologist, but my skeptic organ is pinging hard. I understand the word “swag” [pre-dates](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=swag&allowed_in_frame=0) the 60’s by a wide margin. The claim that it was invented in the 60’s is obviously wrong, but still, it is possible the usage was as mentioned. Is there any evidence from the 60’s? Actual posters? Written accounts? > > So help me out dopers. Accept or reject? Reject : that word has a longer history than that, back to the days of pirates, this is just another adaption of the word for another purpose… ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/58 "2013-05-01T21:52:05Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Precisely. It’s just like how people go around saying, “You know, the real origin of jeans sagging is based on gay men in jail advertising themselves as available.” It’s simple sour grapes in this case…some people look at men who are cocky and over confident and they just can’t stand it. They feel the need to ‘pull them down’ in some way. Put them back in their place. “Well, now you aren’t any better than me, mr. cool guy, because your confidence and style is really a secret code for the GAY!” Acknowledging that this is a zombie, agree 100%, “Secretly We Are Gay” sounds _exactly_ like what they told us in high school, which was that wearing sagging pants meant you were receptive to buttsex in prison. It always grinded my gears because it’s simultaneously ignorant, homophobic, and racist. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551/59 "2013-05-01T21:54:28Z")
[Dennis Moore](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH5OnkzI6fo) knows what SWAG is, and it ain’t lupins (skip ahead to 4:33). Also, we’ve done this before: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-76957.html](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-76957.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-swag-secretly-we-are-gay/633551.md?page=2)