# Origin of the Borg **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 20, 2002, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717 "2002-09-20T02:56:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DarkBrigade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@DarkBrigade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarkBrigade)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/1 "2002-09-20T02:56:27Z")
Hello, I was just curious and thought I would ask all you trekies out there and any one else who would like to answer this question. What are the origins of the Borg? How did they come to be? Who are they? What is there history? Is there technology based on nanoprobes? And any other tidbits you want to add about the borg… On a side note, does the borgs need of voyagers help in there combat with species 8472 show that they no longer know or never knew how to alter their nanoprobes? Thanks Benjamin of the Dark Brigade And Volta Cajun Man, Esprix, and Bryan Ekers I reposted my original after this got eaten. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/2 "2002-09-20T03:36:46Z")
As I mentioned before it got eaten, Roddenberry said before he died that he was comfortable with the suggestion that V’Ger from “The Motion Picture” had actually encountered the Borg homeworld, and that’s how it got that way. It’s a theory. It was put to the test in one of Shatner’s novels where the Borg capture Spock, and as they go to assimilate him the stop - because he’d mind-melded with V’Ger, they thought he was already Borg. Neat, eh? (But probably irrelevant to the OP.) Esprix ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/3 "2002-09-20T04:01:50Z")
I don’t have an answer to the OP, but I do have another question: My old roomate was a big Trek fan, and he claims that in the first appearance of the Borg (his last name, by the way), they simply wanted to assimilate technology…the whole “biological assimilation” was something that was developed later. I don’t remember the first appearance in all that specifics, but I don’t remember the borg assimilating people as well. Was that bit a later re-write to make them a bit more menacing, or is he mistaken? As for their origin…I’m pretty sure _Voyager_ made up something really stupid to fuck up whatever it was that was developed in the past, so who knows? ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/4 "2002-09-20T13:10:10Z")
\*\* Dark Brigade\*\* your friend is essentially correct. The episode was called _Q Who?_ and they didn’t want biologicals. Another nitpick on the episode Whoppee/Guinan goes on and on about how her people were “destroyed and scattered” by the Borg and blah blah … What we learn in the Movies is that her “people” live in the Nexus… just a little whole plot hole I think. some refs: [http://www.sfsite.com/04a/q54.htmhttp://www.sfsite.com/04a/q54.htm](http://www.sfsite.com/04a/q54.htmhttp://www.sfsite.com/04a/q54.htm) [http://grove.ufl.edu/~locutus/Bit/history.html](http://grove.ufl.edu/~locutus/Bit/history.html) ,takes off Simpsons comic book guy disguise. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/5 "2002-09-20T14:08:36Z")
Sorry, **Jimmmy** , but _Star Trek: Generations_ only showed two shiploads of refugees from Guinan’s home planet getting stuck in the Nexus, and their ships were crippled and blew up when it hit. Her people (no quotations) didn’t live in the Nexus, a few hundred of them got trapped by it, including (somehow) part of Guinan. The only plot hole (with regard to Guinan’s people) was that nobody asked or told what it was that they were refugees _from_ - I’d have considered that important information whether I was a refugee myself or I was one of the Starfleet officers receiving the refugees. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/6 "2002-09-20T14:59:46Z")
Back to the Borg origins. The Borg consist of artificially-conjoined organic/technological life forms. Their queen is a bald humanoid female. The climax of the plot of _Star Trek: The Motion Picture_ involves the artificial conjoining of organic and technological life forms, one of which is a probe in the shape of a bald humanoid female. I submit that it would not be the wildest left turn in _Trek_ lore that we discover that the Ilia-probe, representing V’ger, in the decades following her “assimilation” of the “Decker-unit” ;), ultimately went mad and determined to enforce her newfound perfection on the rest of the universe. I posted this before the boards crashed. I have my suspicions that it was agents of Paramount, seeing that I had discovered their secret plot lines for the seasons to come, who caused the crash. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/7 "2002-09-20T15:24:48Z")
**KneadToKnow** Oo! I like the V’ger-Borg origin idea! Nifty! But I was under the impression though that the Borg have been around for a really long time, but that they’ve been very, very far away. When Q intorduced the Enterprise to the Borg, there seemed to be a big deal that “Now they know about us! Now they’ll come!” If V’ger was the origin of the Borg, I would think that they already would have known about humanity. _shrug_ Maybe the bald chick forgot. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/8 "2002-09-20T15:29:45Z")
I didn’t say it was bullet-proof. Just within the realm of _Trek_ possibility. 🙂 As to the “very, very far away” part, I would hypothesize that the first transwarp conduit opened when V’ger/Decker vanished from the skies over Earth. Possibly even a time warp, sending the nascent Borg queen to the Delta Quadrant of the past. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/9 "2002-09-20T16:31:10Z")
FWIW, I like to think that the Borg originally were flesh & bone humanoids that collected knowledge. As their explorations spread further from their homeworld, they developed cybernetic implants to store the knowledge that accumulated over the long voyages. As their technology advanced, the implants became more sophisticated and the species became obsessed with efficiency. They reasoned that the most efficient way to accumulate knowledge is to assimilate the beings that hold the knowledge. As for the homeworld, it was decimated by millennia of pollution and eventually became uninhabitable. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/10 "2002-09-20T17:14:19Z")
As a skew question… Am I the only one who thought the concept of a borg ‘queen’ made them **less** menacing and not more? The fact that they were this huge collective scared the crap out of me. Now that there’s someone in ‘charge’ (so to speak) it becomes much less alien and more indentifiable. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/11 "2002-09-20T17:23:12Z")
It would be less menacing if she stayed dead. But she keeps being undead, so i view her more as a body that represents the thoughts of the collective, not as an individual herself. Now, that the Borg have assimilated Kevin “Ug” Lee from Salute Your Shorts (he played Seven’s dad), they are pretty much perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/12 "2002-09-20T17:24:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > \*\*FWIW, I like to think that the Borg originally were flesh & bone humanoids that collected knowledge. As their explorations spread further from their homeworld, they developed cybernetic implants to store the knowledge that accumulated over the long voyages. As their technology advanced, the implants became more sophisticated \ \*\* Oo, that’s neat too. Kinda like the Borg meets _The Matrix_. Biological creatures lose out to their own technology… **Jonathan Chance** – Yeah, I mean, it’s kinda taking the “hive” image a little too far to bumblebee-land. One giant, inter-connected consciousness was _way_ freakier than a “smart leader with a bunch of expendable lackeys.” Too much like the Wicked Witch and her flying monkeys. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/13 "2002-09-20T19:14:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Charmian \* > **Oo, that’s neat too. Kinda like the Borg meets _The Matrix_. Biological creatures lose out to their own technology…** Thanks. I have bits and pieces of a fan fiction story in my mind which incorporates that idea and one of an offshoot of Borg civilization. This offshoot, sort of a reverse of the Vulcan-Romulan connection, thought that the enhanced implants were a bad idea so they fled their homeworld for uncharted territory. Problem is that I always get stuck whenever I try to fill in the gaps. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/14 "2002-09-20T22:03:43Z")
For the non-Whovians- The Cybbermen are longtime foes of the Doctor. They originally inhabited a second Earth, in the same orbit but on the opposite side of the Sun. Then, some catastrophe caused their world to move out of orbit and into deep space. In order to survive, the humans of this planet began implanting themselves with cybernetics. In early appearances, Cybermen have heads wrapped in gauze, visible hands, and look like medical experiments. They become more and more technological each time they are seen. At present, Cybermen appear totally inorganic. ``` The Cybermen were originally humans fighting to survive. In the end, they survived at the cost of their humanity. The same story works for the Borg. ``` One Dr Who site mentioned a theory I find interesting “The Borg are just Cybermen who watched HellRaiser too many times.” ---
**Author:** ![Spudo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Spudo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spudo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2002, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/15 "2002-09-20T23:01:30Z")
As a large Borg fan (the original Borg at any rate) I always assumed that they were just normal biological beings who started to enhance themselves with cybernetic implants. The Borg Queen says to Data in First Contact “We were once like humans, flawed” which leads me to this conclusion. I think that the Borg have been totally neutered though, when the Enterprise first met them they got their assess handed to them and only though Q’s intervention did they survive. They were perfect villians then, unstoppable, all powerful, they didn’t care about diplomacy, they wouldn’t have made a deal with anyone, or tried to entice anyone to join them, they were all about assimilating. Voyager and to a lesser extent First Contact totally screwed the Borg over in terms of menace. Even the Locutus thing was against the original idea, they don’t need an ambassador, all they need is a cube and some drones to assimilate, though it was a cool plot twist. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2002, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/16 "2002-09-21T13:46:13Z")
The Borg are much like Q (and arguably even Data and LaForge’s VISOR) in that they represent a concept that wasn’t really given any set limits, so the writer of an episode can pretty much make up whatever ability is needed to move the story along. As a result, every Borg episode (as well as every Q episode) contradicts some earlier point. Phil Farrand’s “Nitpicker” books do a good job of cataloging these flaws (i.e. if an assimilated Picard can say “I am Locutus”, why is it so shocking when “Hugh” says “I will not help you” ?). With the end of _Voyager_, I doubt we’ll see any more canon Borg episodes (barring a continuity-busting _Enterprise_ appearance). I can imagine them popping up in a future movie but I’m personally hoping they’ll let this concept go. The writers haven’t made the Borg interesting enough (robot zombies - WE GET IT, ALREADY!) while making them so powerful, their defeats at the hands of Janeway and co. became more and more implausible. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/17 "2002-09-21T22:24:58Z")
Just out of curiosity, wasn’t there a book where the Enterprise or someone came across the Borg Homeworld? ---
**Author:** ![Daniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Daniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/18 "2002-09-22T00:18:51Z")
Didn’t Lore once take control of an outcast Borg colony (like one led by Hugh)? Whatever happened to those guys? ---
**Author:** ![Iyamity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/96bed5/32.png) [@Iyamity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iyamity)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/19 "2002-09-22T01:11:23Z")
Sorry if this is a sidetrack, but did the Borg have cloaking technology? If not why not? I’ve seen Klingons who were assimilated, presumably from ships which had the technology. But the Borg never seemed to use it. Does anyone know why? ---
**Author:** ![Daniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Daniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717/20 "2002-09-22T03:00:06Z")
probably they didn’t need it. Never cared to hide from anything. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-borg/128717.md?page=2)