# Origin of "The" freeway in Southern California. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 11, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543 "2012-02-11T19:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/81 "2012-02-17T00:26:05Z")
Sure and if you define “native” (Northern Calif bay area) to exclude “_people who’ve spent time in Southern California_”. then indeed, I have also never heard it, as I have never \*met \*anyone up here who hasn’t “spent time in Southern California” except one sr citizen who had never even driven a car. Pretty much, you can always use the “No true Scotsman" if you exclude “people who’ve spent time in Southern California”, as “people who’ve spent time in Southern California” but who now live in Northern California come pretty close to 90% of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/82 "2012-02-17T02:38:38Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Here’s a fun fact that almost nobody knows. An Interstate has to start and end at another Interstate. On account of it being, well, not true. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/83 "2012-02-17T03:12:45Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > North-South freeways have odd numbers that increase from West to East. East-West freeways have even numbers. A freeway whose number is divisible by five is a major route. Three-digit numbers indicate a ‘loop’ or an ‘offshoot’ from the main freeway. The number of the freeway it deviates from is indicated by the last two digits. If it is a ‘loop’, the first digit is even, and if it is an ‘offshoot’ (i.e., it does not rejoin the main freeway), the first digit is even. > > The 5 runs North and South. The 405 is a ‘loop’ of the 5 that runs North and South with ends at the 5 in the San Fernando Valley and Irvine (the El Toro Y), so it has an even first digit and ‘05’ indicates it is a ‘loop’ of the 5. The 105 isn’t a loop. Nor is it an offshoot. As a matter of fact, it never crosses the 5 (OK, I-5). ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/84 "2012-02-17T03:34:13Z")
I missed out on a job because I kept referring to the freeways around Denver as “the 25” and “the 70”. The interviewer said I was “too L A” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/85 "2012-02-17T03:49:54Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > North-South freeways have odd numbers that increase from West to East. East-West freeways have even numbers. A freeway whose number is divisible by five is a major route. Three-digit numbers indicate a ‘loop’ or an ‘offshoot’ from the main freeway. The number of the freeway it deviates from is indicated by the last two digits. If it is a ‘loop’, the first digit is even, and if it is an ‘offshoot’ (i.e., it does not rejoin the main freeway), the first digit is even. As Southern California boy Tom Waits said: The eights go east and the fives go north The merging nexus back and forth “Diamonds on my Windshield” ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/86 "2012-02-17T05:12:22Z")
Re: 3-digit naming of interstates (loops vs. offshoots) and interstates terminating at other interstates (as discussed in various posts above): Also, only sporadically true (if that) in the S. F. Bay Area. It may have more to do with just where the interstates (especially the 3-digit “connectors”) happen to be most needed, or how many of them there are and whether there are enough 3-digit numbers available, or if the designated roadways have mutated and evolved in rather ad-hoc ways over the years. The major “connector” is I-580, connecting I-80 in the bay area with I-5 in the San Joaquin Valley. I’m guessing the choice of “5” in the name is no accident there. It is not a loop at all. The I-80 end used to be the western end of it, but no longer – the portion of State Route 17 from that point to San Rafael has long-since ceased to be SR-17 and is now part of I-580. (This is the part through Berkeley, mentioned above, where you are driving east and west at the same time.) Also, there is: I-280 and I-680 neither of which is a loop, but combined are (I-80 in S.F. through San Jose and on to I-80 at Fairfield north of the bay). I-380 is a dinky connector. I-780 is an I-to-I connector (680 to 80). I-880 and I-980 are late additions, and there’s another with an oddball 3-digit number I forget. They all connect an interstate with some other major highway in the area. A lot of these are bit and pieces of longer highways, where just a short stretch became designated as an Interstate. I think it has a lot to do with what highway program “owns” or adopted it, and who pays what funding for it. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/87 "2012-02-17T08:50:15Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > The major “connector” is I-580, connecting I-80 in the bay area with I-5 in the San Joaquin Valley. I’m guessing the choice of “5” in the name is no accident there. It is not a loop at all. The I-80 end used to be the western end of it, but no longer – the portion of State Route 17 from that point to San Rafael has long-since ceased to be SR-17 and is now part of I-580. Also, there is: I-280 and I-680 neither of which is a loop, but combined are (I-80 in S.F. through San Jose and on to I-80 at Fairfield north of the bay). I-380 is a dinky connector. I-780 is an I-to-I connector (680 to 80). I-880 and I-980 are late additions, and there’s another with an oddball 3-digit number I forget. They all connect an interstate with some other major highway in the area. Nitpicks: The “long-since” ceasing of 17 is the same as the “late addition” of 880 (1984), when the portion from 280 in San Jose through to Point Reyes was lopped off of 17’s route. Though the route connects, the freeway for 280 does not yet meet up with 80. It crosses 101 and terminates on city streets. The oddball 3-digit is presumably 238, which got that name when all the other x80s were accounted for and [state] Highway 238 (from 680 to LRN 61 (now I-880)) was trying to be an interstate; only the section from 580 to 880 is now. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/88 "2012-02-17T17:39:07Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > On account of it being, well, not true. It was true. I thought it still held. And I don’t understand why I-40 doesn’t become a state road after I-140. Who allowed that? Contrarily, why does New York have to pay for the upkeep of those interstates above I-490? We’re being cheated somehow. When I’m king, the world becomes rational again by decree. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/89 "2012-02-18T00:07:00Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It was true. I thought it still held. And I don’t understand why I-40 doesn’t become a state road after I-140. Who allowed that? Contrarily, why does New York have to pay for the upkeep of those interstates above I-490? We’re being cheated somehow. > > **When I’m king, the world becomes rational again by decree.** What, then, would you do with Interstate 3.1415926535898? Kings have decreed this rational before, and all their cathedrals promptly fell over. (I swear, I first read of this in some college history book years ago. It was one of the Kings Frederick in Renaissance times. The book didn’t really say that any cathedrals fell over – Just that all the architects and engineers of the day kind of smiled and ignored the new law.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/90 "2012-02-18T02:09:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It was true. I thought it still held. Cite? You never noticed how I-10 ended in Santa Monica, or I-45 in Galveston, or I-40 in Wilmington, or I-95 in Miami? I-55 ends in Chicago at Lake Shore Drive. > [@](#): > > And I don’t understand why I-40 doesn’t become a state road after I-140. Who allowed that? Contrarily, why does New York have to pay for the upkeep of those interstates above I-490? Huh? I-40 is a state road from end to end, it just carries an Interstate number—given by AASHTO, not by a federal agency—for convenience of the motoring public. While it’s generally true that non-tolled Interstate routes were originally built with 90% federal funding, beyond that you can’t make assumptions about ownership or finance from the highway numbers. For decades there were programs such as Federal Aid Primary, Federal Aid Secondary, Federal Aid Urban, and National Highway System that helped build or improve roads that may have carried state highway numbers or no number at all. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/91 "2012-02-20T00:48:14Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > \ > > **Huh? I-40 is a state road from end to end, it just carries an Interstate number—given by AASHTO, not by a federal agency—for convenience of the motoring public.** > > \ What shape/color are the signs marking this road? Does it’s number really include the letter “I” (eye)? Those define the highways rather than the number alone. The bay area lacks a I-180 and I think also I-480, yet one (or both?) of those exist (or once existed) as State Routes SR-180 and/or SR-480, marked by State Route signs. And then there are all those [Interstates (for-real!) in Hawaii!](http://shields.aaroads.com/img/HI/HI19882014i1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/92 "2012-02-20T03:42:37Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > Huh? I-40 is a state road from end to end, it just carries an Interstate number—given by AASHTO, not by a federal agency—for convenience of the motoring public. While it’s generally true that non-tolled Interstate routes were originally built with 90% federal funding, beyond that you can’t make assumptions about ownership or finance from the highway numbers. For decades there were programs such as Federal Aid Primary, Federal Aid Secondary, Federal Aid Urban, and National Highway System that helped build or improve roads that may have carried state highway numbers or no number at all. Can I make assumptions from the [official Federal Highway Administration route log and finder website](http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/routefinder/table1.cfm)? > [@](#): > > I-40 > N. Carolina - Asheville, Morganton, Hickory, Statesville, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, Burlington, Durham, Raleigh, Smithfield, Wilmington ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/93 "2012-02-20T04:42:44Z")
Sure. How does that prove that “an Interstate has to start and end at another Interstate?” **Senegoid** , the road is marked by the AASHTO Interstate shield, but it’s owned and maintained by the state it runs through. The letter _ **I** _ doesn’t appear on Interstate markers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543.md?page=4)