# Origin of the Phrase "I'll Have No Truck With..." **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 27, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115 "2010-11-27T23:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/1 "2010-11-27T23:48:35Z")
On a recent episode of _The Big Bang Theory_, Sheldon said > [@](#): > > There’s a plot afoot. I’ll have no truck with plots. I had never heard this phrase (regarding plots or any other thing) prior to Sheldon saying it, but I have to admit it doesn’t sound particularly out of the ordinary coming out of Sheldon’s mouth. Anyway, anyone familiar with this phrase and its origin? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/2 "2010-11-27T23:55:24Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > On a recent episode of _The Big Bang Theory_, Sheldon said > I had never heard this phrase (regarding plots or any other thing) prior to Sheldon saying it, but I have to admit it doesn’t sound particularly out of the ordinary coming out of Sheldon’s mouth. > > Anyway, anyone familiar with this phrase and its origin? “Truck” has an old meaning “to trade, or exchange with,” so “I’ll have no truck with” means “I’ll have no dealings with” - I’m not surprised Sheldon uses the phrase - he may have heard it from his beloved Grandmother… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/3 "2010-11-28T00:10:35Z")
> **[Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words](https://www.dictionary.com/)** > > The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years! > [@](#): > > –verb (used with object) > > 1. to exchange; trade; barter. > –verb (used without object) > > 2. to exchange commodities; barter. > > 3. to traffic; have dealings. > > Origin: > 1175–1225; ME trukien to exchange \< OF troquer to exchange ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/4 "2010-11-28T00:45:09Z")
Also, a ‘truck patch’ is a small garden where you grow fruits and vegetables for sale. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/5 "2010-11-28T00:57:44Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Also, a ‘truck patch’ is a small garden where you grow fruits and vegetables for sale. And “truck farming” is doing the same thing on a larger scale. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/6 "2010-11-28T03:06:21Z")
So is that where we get the word ‘truck’ meaning ‘vehicle’, presumably originally ‘vehicle carrying goods for sale’? ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/7 "2010-11-28T06:18:21Z")
Australian singer/songwriter Kate Miller-Heidke has [a song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kurd_wnrbNw) on her recent album _Curiouser_ called _No Truck_. The chorus is: > [@](#): > > Forgive me if I’m speaking out of turn > But I’m not as young as I used to be > And you live and you learn > Forgive me if I’m pushing on my luck > But I’ve been through this a million times and now I’ll have no truck with it > No truck I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with the vehicle, but with the word [“truckling”](http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=truckling): ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/8 "2010-11-28T06:25:15Z")
Ran out of time. To “have no truck” is to refuse to truckle, or do another’s bidding (under protest). ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/9 "2010-11-28T06:41:02Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > So is that where we get the word ‘truck’ meaning ‘vehicle’, presumably originally ‘vehicle carrying goods for sale’? Correct up to the ‘carrying goods for sale’ part. A truck was just a big vehicle for carrying any kind of cargo, and before the widespread use of motor vehicles the word could refer to a large wagon with a team of horses.[sup]1[/sup] This is also why the Teamsters Union called themselves that, and why their logo still includes a team of horses as its main prominent motif. Another related usage in the pre-motorization era was for those four-wheeled assemblies at either end of a rail car; this appears to still be current in the [railroad industry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_truck) in the United States. [sup]1[/sup]See for example the novel _McTeague_, written by Frank Norris in 1899. In one passage, the characters all go to one of the primitive motion pictures of the time. This is merely a sequence of unrelated scenes of people and objects moving, in this case including a “truck” being driven towards the camera. In 1899 it’s unlikely that it would have been a motor vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/10 "2010-11-28T07:16:34Z")
Huh? It’s pretty clear that the word “truck” in this context has far more to do with [“truculence”](http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&r=2&s=truculence&i=1&h=11123123122231223123123123022222210#c) than anything designed to carry a load. ```auto Noun * S: (n) truculence, truculency (obstreperous and defiant aggressiveness) o direct hypernym / inherited hypernym / sister term + S: (n) aggressiveness, belligerence, pugnacity (a natural disposition to be hostile) # S: (n) bellicosity, bellicoseness (a natural disposition to fight) # S: (n) truculence, truculency (obstreperous and defiant aggressiveness) o derivationally related form + W: (adj) truculent [Related to: truculence, truculency] (defiantly aggressive) "a truculent speech against the new government" ``` ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/11 "2010-11-28T08:51:10Z")
Sorry **gaffa** the others are correct. Truck was barter for goods, it was insitutionlised in many countries where employers would pay their workers in their own company minted coinage, which could only be redeemed at the company shops. Employers were unscrupulous and would charge extremely high prices, and this would ensure that the employees would end up in debt and so tie the employees down to them. ‘Sixteen tons’ is a song about the truck system. > **[Sixteen Tons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen_Tons)** > > "Sixteen Tons" is a song written by Merle Travis about a coal miner, based on life in the mines of Muhlenberg County, Kentucky. Travis first recorded the song at the Radio Recorders Studio B in Hollywood, California, on August 8, 1946. Cliffie Stone played bass on the recording. It was first released in July 1947 by Capitol on Travis's album Folk Songs of the Hills. The song became a gold record. > The sole authorship of "Sixteen Tons" is attributed to Merle Travis on all recordings beginning w... > **[Truck wages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_system)** > > Truck wages are wages paid not in conventional money but instead in the form of payment in kind (i.e. commodities, including goods and/or services); credit with retailers; or a money substitute, such as scrip, chits, vouchers or tokens. Truck wages are a characteristic of a truck system. > "Truck", in this context, is a relatively archaic English word meaning "exchange" or "barter". > A truck system includes one or both of the following practices under which truck wages are used to defraud and/or ... You will note that in the second link it directly answers the OP’s question. More than you really wanted toknow about truck trading > **[Truck Acts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_Acts)** > > Truck Acts is the name given to legislation that outlaws truck systems, which are also known as "company store" systems, commonly leading to debt bondage. In England and Wales such laws date back to the 15th century. > The modern successor of the Truck Acts is found in the Employment Rights Act 1996 sections 13–27. This replaced and updated the Wages Act 1986 which had itself repealed the Truck Acts. A case called Bristow v City Petroleum was the last case to be decided under the old legislatio... ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/12 "2010-11-28T19:03:12Z")
The word ‘truck’ stands out in The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn in which he seems to mean by it “sundries” both concretely and figuratively – both assortments of items or assortments of notions like “book learnin’ and other such truck.” ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/13 "2010-11-28T19:42:30Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Ran out of time. To “have no truck” is to refuse to truckle, or do another’s bidding (under protest). What’s the trouble with truckles? ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/14 "2010-11-28T19:46:17Z")
Johnny, Huck also said “I’ll have no truck with dead people” ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/15 "2010-11-28T20:41:11Z")
According to the OED, ‘truckle’ was short for truckle-bed, itself a variant of trundle-bed. Since the trundle bed is shoved under the regular high bed when not in use, ‘truckle’ and ‘truckling’ came to refer metaphorically to someone assuming a subservient role. > [@OED](#): > > ``` > A low bed running on truckles or castors, usually pushed beneath a high or ‘standing’ bed when not in use; a trundle-bed. So truckle bedstead. > > A low bed running on truckles or castors, usually pushed beneath a high or ‘standing’ bed when not in use; a trundle-bed. So truckle bedstead. > > ``` > > 1459 Stat. Magd. Coll. Oxf. xlv, Sint duo lecti principales, et duo lecti rotales, Trookyll beddys vulgariter nuncupati. 1531 in Rec. St. Mary at Hill 45 Item, an olde lytell coueryng for a lytell Trokell bed. 1597 BP. HALL Sat. II. vi. 5 First that He lie vpon the Truckle-bed, Whiles his yong maister lieth ore his hed. 1598 SHAKES. Merry W. IV. v. 6 There’s his Chamber, his House, his Castle, his standing-bed and truckle-bed. 1662 PEPYS Diary 1 May, To bed all alone, and my Will in the truckle bed. 1755 SMOLLETT Quix. (1803) IV. 273 Sancho slept that night in a truckle-bed, in the apartment of Don Quixote. 1807 SIR R. C. HOARE Tour Irel. 302 Numbers [of peasants]..have not a bedstead, nor even what is called a truckle bed frame. 1831 CARLYLE Sart. Res. I. iii, Wretchedness cowers into truckle-beds, or shivers hunger-stricken into its lair of straw. 1895 RIDER HAGGARD Heart of World vii, A few chairs, a rough washing-stand, and two truckle bedsteads of American make. The verb ‘truckle’ originally meant to sleep in a trundle bed, a lower and less desirable bed than the main one in the room, so the use of ‘truckling’ to denote submissiveness was a natural result. > [@OED](#): > > ``` > {dag}1. intr. To sleep in a truckle-bed. Const. under (beneath) the person occupying the high bed, or the high bed itself. Also fig. Obs. > > ``` > > 1613 BEAUM. & FL. Coxcomb I. vi, I’ll truckle here, boy; give me another pillow. 1655 R. BOREMAN Mirr. Mercy & Judgm. 21 Who had the custody of him at the house of master Foster, Keeper of the Prison, and truckled under him every night. 1657 HOWELL Londinop. 399 [St. Paul’s] having a large Church..truckling, as one may say, under her Chancel. 1658 E. PHILLIPS Gard. Tulips 51 The Knight keeps to his Lady in the high bed, and never truckles. 1674 N. FAIRFAX Bulk & Selv. 21 Such a kind of somewhatkin, as truckles beneath the very tinyness of an half nothing. So, long story short, I don’t think ‘truckling’ has anything to do with having truck. or little pickup trucks, or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![wonderlust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonderlust/32/7237_2.png) [@wonderlust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderlust)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/16 "2010-11-28T20:47:36Z")
I thought Jerry Garcia started it. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/17 "2010-11-28T22:39:58Z")
> [@wonderlust](#): > > I thought Jerry Garcia started it. What a Crumby thing to say … (Actually, they were probably both referencing “Truckin’ my Blues Away” by Blind Boy Fuller.) ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/18 "2010-11-29T05:26:19Z")
Nothing to do with truckle, and nothing to do with truculence. _To truck_ is to exchange, to barter, to bargain, to negotiate, to deal. Hence, to have no truck with someone requires more than not submitting to him or not engaging in agression with him; it requires having no communication or dealings with him at all. And that is what the phrase means. It’s evident from this thread that the phrase is not common in the US, but it’s common enough to be unremarkable in Ireland, and its meaning is well understood. To have no truck with someone (or something) is to have nothing to do with him (or it). ---
**Author:** ![MadNotAngry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/278dde/32.png) [@MadNotAngry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadNotAngry)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/19 "2010-11-29T07:05:41Z")
Once found a dictionary from 1880. Looked up some common words: COMPUTER: is one who computes (obviously). Then looked up CAR; Slang for Cart (how interesting), then looked up TRUCK: a large cart. Well, there you go ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115/20 "2010-11-29T07:57:57Z")
> [@Jake](#): > > Johnny, Huck also said “I’ll have no truck with dead people” Huh. I remember that line as something like “I don’t take no stock in dead people.” That’s another interesting locution, though less mysterious in derivation than the similar “set a lot of store by [something]”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-phrase-ill-have-no-truck-with/562115.md?page=2)