# Origin of "tinker" to refer to gypsies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 1, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424 "2005-03-01T14:14:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424/1 "2005-03-01T14:14:18Z")
Where did the nickname “tinker” come from for a gypsy? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424/2 "2005-03-01T14:48:00Z")
The term “tinker” merely means a metalsmith, operating outside the Guild structure, & usually confining himself to repairing items. Tinkers were usually mobile, using portable forges/equipment, & offered services to communities too small/remote to sustain a full time smith. Tinkers joining mobile Romany troops, or Romany taking up, well, tinkering, is just natural, & mutually convienent. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424/3 "2005-03-01T15:01:20Z")
It’s not so much the Romany (“Gypsies” is kind of derogatory) who got the nickname “tinkers” as it was the Irish Travellers, and that’s because traditionally, Irish Travellers were known for being tinsmiths. ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424/4 "2005-03-01T15:21:53Z")
What makes their damns so worthless? As in “I don’t give a tinker’s damn”? ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424/5 "2005-03-01T15:24:26Z")
> [@caveman](#): > > What makes their damns so worthless? As in “I don’t give a tinker’s damn”? I think there was a thread on this, (I’m too lazy to check), but I believe it’s “tinker’s dam”, not damn. I think its a piece used in tinsmithing that is thrown away, hence of no value. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424/6 "2005-03-01T18:02:18Z")
Tinkers dam, AFAIK, is a lump of paste made from chewed bread. The idea is that when patching a hole, the dam is used as a support plug to the new material, and once used, is obviously not worth much. The bread idea is also used in plumbing. Imagine you have a damaged pipe, you turn off the water and now want to make a repair, you drain down your system as best you can, and cut either side of the damage, taking out that part. Water will still be sitting in the pipework, likely as not, and it will slowly trickle out, there is no pressure, you truned that off earlier. Trickling water does not make for a good soldered joint, so instead you make a plug of bread, and push it a little way up the pipe. The water flow reduces long enough for you to make a good joint and a good repair. Before you trun on the water, you open the next in line tap/faucet to the repair, and when the water pressure resumes, it blasts the bread plug out which is now pretty soggy and fragile and comes throught easily, as long as you didnt aboslutely stuff the pipe with compressed bread. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424/7 "2005-03-01T18:26:05Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Tinkers dam, AFAIK, is a lump of paste made from chewed bread. > > The idea is that when patching a hole, the dam is used as a support plug to the new material, and once used, is obviously not worth much. > > The bread idea is also used in plumbing… Until I see a cite, I’m going to call BS on that one. The whole idea just seems way too cute and simply screams “urban myth”. Plus, the version of that phrase I’ve always heard is “don’t give a tinker’s cuss”, which is synonymous with “damn”. Here’s what the dictionary has to say: > [@](#): > > **tinker’s damn** _or_ **cuss** NOUN _Slang_ the slightest heed (esp in the phrase **not give a tinker’s damn** _or_ **cuss** ). ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424/8 "2005-03-01T18:44:40Z")
These sites agree with **Colophon**. > **[Penguin Random House](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com?date=20000114)** > > Committed to publishing great books, connecting readers and authors globally, and spreading the love of reading. [http://www.wordorigins.org/wordort.htm](http://www.wordorigins.org/wordort.htm) ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424/9 "2005-03-01T18:44:57Z")
[This page](http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000114) says there is such a doughy plug but it probably wasn’t referred to as a dam until after the “tinker’s dam(n)” expression. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424/10 "2005-03-01T19:09:29Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > These sites agree with **Colophon**. > > [http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000114](http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000114) > > [http://www.wordorigins.org/wordort.htm](http://www.wordorigins.org/wordort.htm) Those sites also answer the question of why a tinker’s damn is particularly worthless – it’s because, thanks to the tinkers’ colourful language, there are so damn many of them! ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tinker-to-refer-to-gypsies/292424/11 "2005-03-01T20:19:04Z")
Michael Quinion’s [comments on tinker’s dam(n)](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-tin1.htm). [From Online Etymology](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=tinker%27s+dam&searchmode=none).