# Origin of "tough titties" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 23, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168 "2008-10-23T02:47:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/21 "2008-10-23T16:37:26Z")
I’ve just recalled that when I was a kid, we’d say “tough toenails.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/22 "2008-10-23T16:50:49Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > It appears to me that alliteration is part its formation (cf. “bad bongos” & “tough takkie” mentioned above). It may be that “titty/titties” has less to do with teats than with the letter “T.” I think so too. I have heard numerous variations of the “Tough \_\_\_\_\_\_” saying, including “tough luck,” “tough shit,” “tough toenails,” “tough tootsies,” and (as my high school German teacher used to say) “tough schade.” ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/23 "2008-10-24T11:10:26Z")
Any further input? I find it instructive that the phrase was used on playgrounds (that’s where I remember using it as a young lad). Trying to get a handle on the actual origin, though… ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/24 "2008-10-24T17:30:23Z")
Gitcher minds outta the gutter, kids. Tit = very small thing (see also tit-men, titmouse, etc.) “Titty” is a diminutive of an already small thing. “Tough Titty” as a phrase is a sarcastic admonition to dismiss a very small, but irritatingly present, detail. “That’s ok. Your snarky quip about my mother in no way affects my ability to pilot the freight ship through these waters.” “Well that would be a tough titty if it did!” ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/25 "2008-10-24T22:08:18Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Gitcher minds outta the gutter, kids. > > Tit = very small thing (see also tit-men, titmouse, etc.) “Titty” is a diminutive of an already small thing. “Tough Titty” as a phrase is a sarcastic admonition to dismiss a very small, but irritatingly present, detail. > > “That’s ok. Your snarky quip about my mother in no way affects my ability to pilot the freight ship through these waters.” > > “Well that would be a tough titty if it did!” Cite? Given that tit meaning mammary gland (from teat, from ME tete, etc.), used diminuitively as “titties” is quite a common word, and given that the nursery rhyme that appears to be associated with the phrase talks about dry mammary glands, your posited meaning appears unlikely. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/26 "2008-10-24T22:20:15Z")
Probably the same as the tee in teetotaler. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/27 "2008-10-24T23:56:24Z")
\*\*Tough noogies! \*\*That was our socially acceptable version in middle school in the late 70’s, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/28 "2008-10-25T00:52:15Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Any further input? I find it instructive that the phrase was used on playgrounds (that’s where I remember using it as a young lad). Trying to get a handle on the actual origin, though… Since the phrase seems to have been used as early as 1921, I’m not sure the playground is the source. I think Army slang, perhaps British, perhaps US. ---
**Author:** ![Debon\_Err](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ea924/32.png) [@Debon\_Err](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debon_Err)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/29 "2008-10-25T03:37:02Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Cite? > Given that tit meaning mammary gland (from teat, from ME tete, etc.), used diminuitively as “titties” is quite a common word, and given that the nursery rhyme that appears to be associated with the phrase talks about dry mammary glands, your posited meaning appears unlikely. :dubious: You question **Inigo Montoya**? He cannot reveal his sources. And he’s a genius, so I’d give him more credit than that. Clearly the phrase is a sarcastic play on words referring to small breasts. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/30 "2008-10-25T14:14:26Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Since the phrase seems to have been used as early as 1921, I’m not sure the playground is the source. I think Army slang, perhaps British, perhaps US. What about the possibility that the phrase originates on the farm? After all, the concept of difficulty getting milk out of a given cow isn’t something unknown in the farm setting? I was only referencing the playground to dismiss the notion that the word “titties” here is a reference to human female mammary glands; such references are rarely allowed to propagate in schoolyards. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/31 "2008-10-25T14:58:24Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I was only referencing the playground to dismiss the notion that the word “titties” here is a reference to human female mammary glands; such references are rarely allowed to propagate in schoolyards. 😛 Really? I thought such phrases mainly propagated on the schoolyard; most people say stuff like titties mainly as schoolchildren in my experience! ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/32 "2008-10-25T15:34:01Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Technically, this type of phrase (“X,” said Y, as something-or-other) is known as a “wellerism.” Another is: “I see,” said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw. I see said the blind man, to his wife who could not hear. It all comes back to me now, as I spit into the wind. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/33 "2008-10-25T15:40:33Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Probably the same as the tee in teetotaler. Probably a folk etymology, but I was given to understand that this was originally “tea”, the meaning being that abstinence from alcohol meant that one’s only “drink” was tea. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/34 "2008-10-25T16:09:21Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’ve never heard tough titties used in a phrase. Where and when did you hear these? I heard it from my Dad, way back in the mid-60’s. I’m certain he heard growing up during the depression in the 30’s. _“Tough titty said the kitty, but he kept right on eating”_ is what he used to say. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/35 "2008-10-25T16:15:09Z")
Looking at locations of those who answered, it seems like most of those who heard a phrase were in the midwest or west while most who just heard tough t\_\_\_\_ of whatever variety were in the east. Not unanimous, but most. I don’t think the Dictionary of American Regional English has put out its T volume yet. This might be a topic they cover. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/36 "2008-10-25T23:56:45Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Really? I thought such phrases mainly propagated on the schoolyard; most people say stuff like titties mainly as schoolchildren in my experience! My point was, if “titties” as used on the school ground was really meaning “tits” “boobs” “breasts of human women”, it would be supressed on the school playground, similar to the way that words like “pussy”, “cock” and “bitch” are. Whatever else you may hear there, you generally don’t hear those words a heck of a lot at school (not at decent schools, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/37 "2008-10-26T00:32:48Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > My point was, if “titties” as used on the school ground was really meaning “tits” “boobs” “breasts of human women”, it would be supressed on the school playground, similar to the way that words like “pussy”, “cock” and “bitch” are. Whatever else you may hear there, you generally don’t hear those words a heck of a lot at school (not at decent schools, anyway). “We run a decent school, here, Mrs. Johnson. The children do not say ‘pussy,’ ‘cock,’ or ‘bitch’ on our playground.” “What about ‘titties’? Do they say ‘tittes’?” “Well, yes. But they’re not referring to human titties.” “So they’re… animal titties?” “Animal tittes. Yes.” (Little kid comes running up) “Um, um, teacher? My bitch had puppies last night, and my neighbor’s pussy is going to have kittens. Can I bring them in for show and tell?” “I don’t see why not, Billy. Jimmy raises chickens, and he’s going to show the class his cock, and maybe a hen or two.” ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/38 "2008-10-26T00:57:38Z")
Yes, the other words can be used in non-sexual senses, but it’s quite obvious when they are being “properly” used. The point is to question whether the use of “titties” in the phrase I’ve offered is really a reference to human female mammary glands, or a reference to animal mammary glands, or not a reference to anything particular at all. Please don’t be unnecessarily obtuse about it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/39 "2008-10-26T01:13:42Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Please don’t be unnecessarily obtuse about it. 😉 But it’s _fun!_ 🙂 Seriously, though, I vote for “not a reference to anything particular at all.” ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168/40 "2008-10-26T01:45:30Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Technically, this type of phrase (“X,” said Y, as something-or-other) is known as a “wellerism.” Another is: “I see,” said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw. > [@Rick](#): > > I see said the blind man, to his wife who could not hear. > It all comes back to me now, as I spit into the wind. “I see, said the blind man to his deaf daughter as he stuck his wooden leg out the window to see if it was raining.” And one more version of the TT quote “Tough titty said the cat to the kitty, but the milks all gone” Also heard as “but the milk’s still good.” FWIW, I heard these 2 versions in the mid 70’s from individuals from the Eastern part of the country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-tough-titties/469168.md?page=3)