# Origin of trainwreck reality shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 24, 2019, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221 "2019-10-24T08:02:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/21 "2019-10-24T16:45:56Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Come to Vienna and watch _[Nachtschiene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAkJN07rmT0)_, which some TV station runs late at night instead of the infomercials that plague other channels. The show is produced by mounting a camera to the front of the local streetcars and just streaming what happens. As far as I know they’ve never shown any accidents. It’s just hour after hour of the streetcar trundling along its tracks and stopping to pick up and let off passengers. I had always thought a channel that was just a camera mounted somewhere would be very interesting, especially with large TVs. Set a camera in a mountain meadow, or Times Square, or an ocean beach, and just let it run 24/7. You could treat the TV like a window to the world. Sound on or off, it would be neat, I think. I can’t do a start up, but if someone wants to steal my idea, I would subscribe to the service. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/22 "2019-10-24T16:53:33Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > COPS debuted in 1989 and fits your definition of “The attraction to the viewers is presumably the schadenfreude and feeling of superiority that comes with seeing these people behaving badly, most commonly by repeatedly humiliating or embarrassing themselves and others.” > [@psychonaut](#): > > I’m wondering, what’s the origin of this subgenre, and what are the very earliest examples? If I had to guess, I’d say that these shows owe a lot to the long-running documentary series _[COPS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cops_%28TV_program%29)_, which debuted in 1989. But I wouldn’t count _COPS_ as a bona fide example of the subgenre, since it doesn’t follow the _same_ group of criminals (or even the same cops) from episode to episode. Johnny Knoxville’s [Jackass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackass_(franchise))? ---
**Author:** ![gregorio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@gregorio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gregorio)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/23 "2019-10-24T17:26:05Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I had always thought a channel that was just a camera mounted somewhere would be very interesting, especially with large TVs. > > Set a camera in a mountain meadow, or Times Square, or an ocean beach, and just let it run 24/7. You could treat the TV like a window to the world. Sound on or off, it would be neat, I think. > > I can’t do a start up, but if someone wants to steal my idea, I would subscribe to the service. 🙂 [The Frame](https://www.engadget.com/2008/08/13/shaw-cable-launches-the-frame-hd-channel-high-def-art-all-the/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHPfkWkycpTfiTSdzNyVPSDWb6b9YTUPmEyk8oFzTjFNhmhVKzbLLveGlFjfSGrXRXgNs3isD3XvatRpB2xbBshHcF-7R79KVSTRcemAlRCoeg74TIC7V11h4xTfJ2e402f7l2UYkwW6AbNM4ytQ94HXLjIKD7GWOF-DvvQ9MEcx) It’s evolved a bit from the date of that engadget post but it is basically what you just described. I like to keep the tuner on that channel so when I turn on the tv I don’t get anything I’m recording, or anything from the channels I’m recording on. I’m looking at you religious programming that happens to be on the channel I record Jeopardy! reruns on. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/24 "2019-10-24T17:35:23Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I remember watching that show at the time, and they did a special where they showed bits of the audition interviews of the cast members. One of the guys said in his interview “sometimes if I find something that bugs somebody I just keep doing it to see what happens” and my friend commented ‘and that’s when they decided to cast him’. I don’t remember the show being especially thoughtful even at the start, they were pretty obviously gearing up for conflict. Maybe they weren’t shooting for as much conflict as they got in the second season where they had to boot David from the show for forcibly stripping a housemate, but they certainly wanted drama like in the third season where Puck got booted for being incredibly annoying. I was “the right age” for the early seasons of Real World. The first season were people who had big personalities and likely would have conflicts, but none of them were out-and-out jerks. (They also all had “real”-ish jobs and lives outside of the RW house. Over time, that went away and the cast really just did RW). There was supposed to be some drama, but not out-and-out trainwreck. If I’m reading the OP correctly, they’re looking for a show full of awful people who do awful things to each other and everyone near them. The earliest I can remember of those was “Bad Girls Club” (2006 according to IMDB.) I think more started to show up during the 2007 writers strike, because it was easy to produce TV. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/25 "2019-10-24T17:45:51Z")
> [@kitap](#): > > Earliest example. While it was a game show, people watched women try to top each other with their awful lives. They had awful lives, but as far as I recall weren’t awful people, in fact the opposite. In general, they were victims of bad luck or circumstance. I doubt the audience (who determined the winner by applause) would have been sympathetic to anyone who was responsible for their own bad circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/26 "2019-10-24T17:51:12Z")
The British Big Brother began as a gentler show than it became. The pivotal moment was 2005’s [“Fight Night”.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(British_series_5)#%22Fight_Night%22)The producers had set up a situation intended to stir up the housemates - who had already divided into factions. It turned out worse - or maybe better - than expected and ratings were very good. I was watching the live feed when it all kicked off. I was rooting for one side and it was compelling TV but also very disturbing. > [@](#): > > On Day 15, Emma and Michelle were sent to a secret room in the House named “the Bedsit” as part of a fake eviction. They were given access to live streaming from the House, were able to observe housemates’ conversations and play pranks on them.[18] Under the impression that they had been evicted, some of the remaining housemates spoke poorly of Emma and Michelle.[30] > > On 16 June, which was Day 20 in the House, Emma and Michelle were returned to the House from the Bedsit. Upon their return, the housemates were provided with fancy dress costumes, party food and alcohol. The two main opponents of Emma and Michelle’s faction, Jason and Victor, were given rather humiliating costumes to wear. Their expressions on seeing the return of the girls were a joy to behold but as the housemates got drunk (very drunk) it all turned nasty. > [@](#): > > In the early hours of 17 June, some of the housemates engaged in a playful food fight, leaving the communal living area in a mess. When Jason insisted that they tidy up their mess, Marco refused, prompting an argument between the pair.[31] Nadia and Emma intervened in defence of Marco, with Nadia flipping over a table and, at one point, she slapped Jason.[32] > > The argument continued to escalate, with Emma and Victor squaring up to each other. Emma and Victor began throwing more food at each other, with Emma eventually throwing an empty tray at him. When Victor retaliated by throwing the same tray at Emma, hitting her in the back of the head, she raced towards him, and a scuffle ensued, while other housemates attempted to separate them.[33] Big Brother repeatedly called Victor to the Diary Room and, as Stuart attempted to get him to comply, Emma was physically carried to the bedroom by Dan, whilst she screamed “I’ll fucking kill you” at Victor.[31] Big Brother sent their security in and viewers called the police. Emma was removed immediately and never allowed back. There was a lot of concern for her mental health. It caused a tightening up of some aspects - like alcohol availability but also increased encouragement of conflict. It remains the biggest reality TV trainwreck that I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/27 "2019-10-24T17:57:53Z")
I think The Real World fits it for me. They specifically say that the show is about different types of people from different backgrounds and they’re filmed to see what happens “when things start getting real.” In the first few seasons the people were generally cool to each other but things did go off the rails from time to time. The third season in San Francisco had Puck who was the most shocking character yet. I recall “the slap” in season 7. Season 8 had Ruthie who was an alcoholic mess. Every year you could tell the producers were trying to ramp up the drama somehow. Bad Girls Club is a decent example. They specifically put some headstrong women together to try to get them to fight. And fight they did!! ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/28 "2019-10-24T18:56:27Z")
Aren’t all these shows simply an outgrowth of Jerry Springer and Maury Povich and their ilk who put on stage a bunch of people who the audience can boo and condemn and insult for their (real or perceived) moral failings and usually get into fisticuffs with one another? It’s not the same format, but it’s roughly the same attitude. These might be considered the “roots” of the genre, if not necessarily examples of it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/29 "2019-10-24T19:13:25Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Aren’t all these shows simply an outgrowth of Jerry Springer and Maury Povich and their ilk who put on stage a bunch of people who the audience can boo and condemn and insult for their (real or perceived) moral failings and usually get into fisticuffs with one another? It’s not the same format, but it’s roughly the same attitude. These might be considered the “roots” of the genre, if not necessarily examples of it. Those shows go much further back in time.Joe Pyne was doing it on the radio in the late 40s and moved to TV in the 50s. Wally George\* was doing this on the radio and TV in various ways during the 50s, and eventually had a TV show entirely based on the format in the 80s. Morton Downey Jr.\*\* also started his show in 1987, about when Geraldo Rivera\*\*\* started his own talk show, but that didn’t start with confrontational format, and neither did Jerry Springer. \*Wally happens to be the father of actress Rebecca DeMornay. \*\* Morton Downey Jr. is not the father of actor Robert Downey Jr. \*\*\* Geraldo Rivera aka Jerry Rivers ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/30 "2019-10-24T19:24:08Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I had always thought a channel that was just a camera mounted somewhere would be very interesting, especially with large TVs. > > Set a camera in a mountain meadow, or Times Square, or an ocean beach, and just let it run 24/7. You could treat the TV like a window to the world. Sound on or off, it would be neat, I think. > > I can’t do a start up, but if someone wants to steal my idea, I would subscribe to the service. 🙂 [Webcamtaxi](https://www.webcamtaxi.com/en/) is just one of many such websites with links to live cameras around the world. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/31 "2019-10-24T20:08:39Z")
> [@kitap](#): > > Earliest example. While it was a game show, people watched women try to top each other with their awful lives. Even if “Queen for a Day” qualifies as a reality show, I don’t know if you can say it’s what started the current trend. It went off the air in 1957, and I’m not sure you can say it “started” something that didn’t pick back up for decades. I would guess most people today have never even heard of it; I only read about it in a Dave Barry column. The modern trend for reality shows in the sense the OP means - that is, reality shows that are not game shows, like “Survivor,” and not hosted talk shows, like “Jerry Springer” - absolutely started with The Real World. It started in 1992 and so predates all other U.S. shows of its type. It was WAY ahead of the curve. Having said, that, it creators have straight up said “An American Family” was one of their inspirations - so while AAF didn’t exactly start a trend, since it’d be 20 years before anyone else tried it, it was a pioneer. Shows similar to The Real World started up in other countries at the same time and I’m too lazy to figure out if one copies another. I think to some extent the rise of reality TV was inevitable once cable started expanding in size. Reality television is cheap to produce as compared to scripted shows and is product-placement-friendly. The Real World was an enormous winner for MTV; they got a soap opera without having to pay soap opera actors actor wages, or pay writers. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/32 "2019-10-24T20:17:47Z")
> [@kitap](#): > > Queen for a Day would be my choice… I remember the pathos… “Each contestant was asked to talk about the recent financial and emotional hard times she had been through, and she’d ask for medical care or therapeutic equipment… Many women broke down sobbing as they described their plights.” Which was [lampooned in one of George Carlin’s first sketches “Daytime Television”](https://youtu.be/XGj03rntPb8?t=472): Poor Congolia Breckinridge sobs that her “husband is a steeplejack, was working on the steeple of a church in the Bronx, St. Anselm’s… He fell off and wound up in the Mayo Clinic. Doctor said it was a hell of a bounce.” Congolia goes on to tell of homelessness, starving children and a bad spleen. _“And if you’re chosen Queenie For A Day, what would you like?”_ “A set of golf clubs!” ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/33 "2019-10-24T20:20:54Z")
Early Real World was certainly set up for conflict, but it was more of the socio-political type. I’d say around Season 5 is when it starting making a clear turn towards hot, drunk and horny. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/34 "2019-10-24T20:25:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Even if “Queen for a Day” qualifies as a reality show, I don’t know if you can say it’s what started the current trend. It went off the air in 1957, and I’m not sure you can say it “started” something that didn’t pick back up for decades. I would guess most people today have never even heard of it; I only read about it in a Dave Barry column. > > The modern trend for reality shows in the sense the OP means - that is, reality shows that are not game shows, like “Survivor,” and not hosted talk shows, like “Jerry Springer” - absolutely started with The Real World. It started in 1992 and so predates all other U.S. shows of its type. It was WAY ahead of the curve. Having said, that, it creators have straight up said “An American Family” was one of their inspirations - so while AAF didn’t exactly start a trend, since it’d be 20 years before anyone else tried it, it was a pioneer. > > Shows similar to The Real World started up in other countries at the same time and I’m too lazy to figure out if one copies another. I think to some extent the rise of reality TV was inevitable once cable started expanding in size. Reality television is cheap to produce as compared to scripted shows and is product-placement-friendly. The Real World was an enormous winner for MTV; they got a soap opera without having to pay soap opera actors actor wages, or pay writers. “Reality Show” doesn’t have a very clear definition in general, but you are right that these days it is mainly considered to mean Real World type shows. I didn’t know it’s creators credited An American Family, they obviously recognized what it was that gave that show it’s notoriety. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/35 "2019-10-24T21:18:02Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I remember the pathos… “Each contestant was asked to talk about the recent financial and emotional hard times she had been through, and she’d ask for medical care or therapeutic equipment… Many women broke down sobbing as they described their plights.” > > Which was [lampooned in one of George Carlin’s first sketches “Daytime Television”](https://youtu.be/XGj03rntPb8?t=472): There was a parody of it a couple of days ago on a MeTV rerun of _Carol Burnette_. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/36 "2019-10-24T21:22:40Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > The British Big Brother began as a gentler show than it became. The pivotal moment was 2005’s [“Fight Night”.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(British_series_5)#%22Fight_Night%22) > … > > Big Brother sent their security in and viewers called the police. Emma was removed immediately and never allowed back. There was a lot of concern for her mental health. _Bib Brother_ US had [a knife incident](https://ew.com/article/2002/07/08/big-brother-knife-incident-results-lawsuit/) in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/37 "2019-10-25T13:11:20Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I remember the pathos… “Each contestant was asked to talk about the recent financial and emotional hard times she had been through, and she’d ask for medical care or therapeutic equipment… Many women broke down sobbing as they described their plights.” > > Which was [lampooned in one of George Carlin’s first sketches “Daytime Television”](https://youtu.be/XGj03rntPb8?t=472): > Poor Congolia Breckinridge sobs that her “husband is a steeplejack, was working on the steeple of a church in the Bronx, St. Anselm’s… He fell off and wound up in the Mayo Clinic. Doctor said it was a hell of a bounce.” > Congolia goes on to tell of homelessness, starving children and a bad spleen. _“And if you’re chosen Queenie For A Day, what would you like?”_ “A set of golf clubs!” I guess my posts really are invisible. too subtle? > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > [“Would you…like to be…Queenie…feraday?”](https://youtu.be/XGj03rntPb8?t=472) ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/38 "2019-10-25T13:37:41Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I guess my posts really are invisible. too subtle? Mine too, it seems. Someone came here to suggest _COPS_, which was already mentioned in the OP. And yet another poster repeated Wendell Wagner’s suggestion of _An American Family_. I guess some people don’t feel it’s necessary to read beyond the thread title before posting. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/39 "2019-10-25T13:47:08Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I guess my posts really are invisible. too subtle? As a matter of fact, yes. Posting a link without explanation is a good way to have your post ignored.😉 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221/40 "2019-10-25T14:01:11Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > My first thought was of the MTV show [The Real World](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_World_(TV_series)#Criticism) which started out (ca. 1992) more or less thoughtful but then started to degenerate into “young people in a house fighting and making out”. (At least that was my impression of it; I haven’t watched it much.) I believe the turning point was Season 3 when they brought in a guy who called himself “Puck”. Until then, the show was just normal boring “people living together” conflicts. But he came on the show specifically to act like as big of an asshole as possible. He would constantly get into fights with the other housemates, particularly Pedro, the gay guy with AIDS. I think that was point when producers realized that the crazier the cast, the more people tuned in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-trainwreck-reality-shows/842221.md?page=3)