# Original classical inspirations for movie themes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617 "2003-04-09T18:57:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/1 "2003-04-09T18:57:05Z")
Here’s one for the classical & movie theme nuts I was listening to the radio on the way to work today, and happened across NPR which was in the middle of their morning classical program. The piece they were playing sounded very familiar, and I was almost certain it was used in The Right Stuff. But the more I listened to it the more it seemed it wasn’t quite right. Some of the notes were just wrong. At the end of the piece they announce it as Jupiter from Holst’s Planets Suite. (Luckily it only lasted five minutes from when I tuned in.) I get to work and check it out, and it turns out the piece from The Right Stuff is pretty widely acknowledged as a rip-off of the Holst piece. That the director used Jupiter as a temp track while editing and refused to buy the rights and forced the theme compose to make a soundalike. So… do you know of other examples of this, where a movie theme steals from old classics? To be clear here, I’m not asking about use of classical music in a movie or about a modern composer ripping off himself, although those are both interesting. Also, are there classical pieces that aren’t directly copied, but that seem to be very influential to movie themes? For example, something that you would swear was a John Williams or James Horner piece but is actually from the 19th century. ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/2 "2003-04-09T19:20:28Z")
Many people point out the similarity between Holst’s _Mars, the Bringer of War_ and the _Imperial March_ (Darth Vader’s theme) from _The Empire Strikes Back_. Holst must be a pretty popular guy with the film composers. ---
**Author:** ![Dragonblink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Dragonblink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonblink)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/3 "2003-04-09T23:55:09Z")
_Mars, Bringer of War_’s influence shows up almost as frequently as _O Fortuna_’s. I also noticed _Mars_ when watching _Gladiator_, for example. It also shows up in the _Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction_ score, but then that’s not a movie theme. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/4 "2003-04-10T00:12:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Many people point out the similarity between Holst’s Mars, the Bringer of War and the Imperial March (Darth Vader’s theme) from The Empire Strikes Back. I’ve always thought Vader’s March actually bore a much more striking resemblance to one of the main themes in Prokofiev’s _Romeo & Juliet_. Similarly, the music for the Battle in the Mutara Nebula in _Star Trek II_ (by Horner) seems liberally cribbed from The Battle on the Ice from Prokofiev’s **Alexander Nevsky**. ---
**Author:** ![Earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/5 "2003-04-10T05:02:27Z")
Interesting. The title reminded me of _The Right Stuff_ even before reading the OP, but I was thinking of Bill Conti’s _other_ rip-off: Tchaikovsky’s Violin Concerto. I haven’t seen the movie in a while, but if my memory is correct, the matchup comes about 5 and a half minutes into the concerto’s first movement. Check it out. ---
**Author:** ![Earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/6 "2003-04-10T05:47:29Z")
Oh, the original score for _Metropolis_, which is included in the [Kino](http://www.kino.com/video/index-metropolis.html) restoration, also contains a snippet from Berlioz’s _Symphonie Fantastique_. It happens when the protagonist Fredor is inside the cathedral and the statues (of the seven deadly sins, IIRC) comes alive. I can’t remember just exactly which portion of the symphony was used, but given the situation, it’s probably from either the 4th (“March to the Scaffold”) or 5th movement (“Dream of a Witches’ Sabbath”). ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/7 "2003-04-10T06:07:11Z")
_Last of the Mohicans_. Great soundtrack. Main theme seems to have inspirations from – I believe it’s from _Carmina Burana_. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/8 "2003-04-10T06:09:16Z")
er… not the main theme. But rather the variation that is done on track 8 of the soundtrack (Last of the Mohicans) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/9 "2003-04-10T06:40:38Z")
- Mars, the Bringer of War \* is also used in \* Friends \* by Led Zeppelin, which appears on Led Zeppelin III. ---
**Author:** ![Theobroma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@Theobroma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theobroma)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/10 "2003-04-10T12:33:06Z")
As I understand it, here’s how it works. The early version of the film is shown to the director with a temporary soundtrack, using the type of music expected to go with the action. Classical music is often used, as it is dramatic, emotional, and available. Evidently Holst and O Fortuna are popular for temp tracks. Then, the director (who has already fallen in love with the music on the temp track) calls in the composer and says, “write something JUST LIKE that! Just make it sound like Holst!” …Or Tchaikovsky, or whichever musical genius has written the music in question. The composer, who after all is working for a living, duly produces something that sounds almost but not quite like Prokifiev, Holst, et al. ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/11 "2003-04-10T16:15:35Z")
Creative efforts rarely exist in a vacuum. Film composers like John Williams, James Horner, et al. owe much to early 20th century composers such as Holst, Igor Stravinsky, and Carl Orff, as well as “crossovers” like Prokofiev, since those guys are the ones who are studied in music colleges. Film composers probably have that music in their heads when they write. So, in a sense, most of it is inspiration. Only the intended medium (film vs. concert hall) is different. > [@](#): > > Also, are there classical pieces that aren’t directly copied, but that seem to be very influential to movie themes? For example, something that you would swear was a John Williams or James Horner piece but is actually from the 19th century. Best example I can think of now is the slow theme from Brahms’ _Academic Festival Overture_, which you’d swear was used in all those low-budget 70’s college flicks, but to knowledge, wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-classical-inspirations-for-movie-themes/167617/12 "2003-04-11T04:05:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by av8rmike \* > \*\*Best example I can think of now is the slow theme from Brahms’ _Academic Festival Overture_, which you’d swear was used in all those low-budget 70’s college flicks, but to knowledge, wasn’t. \*\* Actually, this theme is called “Gaudeamus Igitur” and is an old German student song (by that great composer “Anon.”) and has been traditionally used by universities as an unofficial anthem and drinking song. So, both Brahms and the movie composers are borrowing from someone else.