# original color of denim? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 31, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440 "2015-01-31T16:54:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![curwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@curwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curwin)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/1 "2015-01-31T16:54:03Z")
We’re used to see denim jeans dyed blue - but what would the color be if they weren’t dyed at all? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/2 "2015-01-31T17:05:00Z")
If the fabric didn’t have indigo in its weave it would not be denim. You would probably just be using some weight of cotton duck. ---
**Author:** ![curwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@curwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curwin)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/3 "2015-01-31T17:13:57Z")
Wait - so white and black jeans aren’t denim? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/4 "2015-01-31T17:15:45Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > If the fabric didn’t have indigo in its weave it would not be denim. > > You would probably just be using some weight of cotton duck. This appears to be incorrect. [ > [@](#): > > Denim[1] is a sturdy cotton warp-faced[2] twill textile in which the weft passes under two or more warp threads. This twill weaving produces the familiar diagonal ribbing of the denim that distinguishes it from cotton duck. > > It is a characteristic of most indigo denim that only the warp threads are dyed, whereas the weft threads remain plain white. As a result of the warp-faced twill weaving, one side of the textile then shows the blue warp threads and the other side shows the white weft threads. This is why blue jeans are white on the inside. The indigo dyeing process, in which the core of the warp threads remains white, creates denim’s fading characteristics, which are unique compared to every other textile. ]([Denim - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denim)) ---
**Author:** ![curwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@curwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curwin)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/5 "2015-01-31T17:18:49Z")
So if I understand this correctly, if the warp threads were not dyed, they would also be plain white. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/6 "2015-01-31T19:47:46Z")
Well, denim is cotton and cotton is usually white if undyed. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/7 "2015-01-31T23:00:39Z")
Trivia time! “Jeans” is short for Genovese “Dungarees” is a stretch of an Eastern Indian name I forget the third. All referred to sailors, who typically wore pants made of sail material - so the answer is “White”, as a rule. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/8 "2015-02-02T01:26:19Z")
> [@curwin](#): > > So if I understand this correctly, if the warp threads were not dyed, they would also be plain white. Thanks! Only if bleached. If neither dyed nor bleached, cotton is a kind of cafe-au-lait colour. ---
**Author:** ![KittenKat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kittenkat/32/306_2.png) [@KittenKat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KittenKat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/9 "2015-02-02T01:42:50Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Trivia time! > “Jeans” is short for Genovese > “Dungarees” is a stretch of an Eastern Indian name > I forget the third. > > All referred to sailors, who typically wore pants made of sail material - so the answer is “White”, as a rule. Are you perhaps thinking of denim being a contraction of De Nimes, the town in which the fabric was developed? I don’t think sail material is the same as denim. Aren’t sails made of canvas or duck? In any case, it is a nontwilled fabric, so definitely _not_ denim. And I agree width **UDS** about the color of natural cotton being more of an ecru rather than a true white. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/10 "2015-02-02T04:29:00Z")
No, I have no idea where the word “denim” originated. I was referring to the forerunners of of the modern jean - the canvas pants worn by sailors - noted for lasting forever. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/11 "2015-02-02T11:22:44Z")
“Denim” comes from the French phrase “serge de Nîmes”, or fabric from Nimes, after the city where the weave was popularized and probably developed. It is similar to, but not the same as, cotton duck, which is a traditional fabric for sails. If you look at denim, you can see a diagonal pattern to the weave which you won’t see with duck. Cotton duck is the stuff that cloth sneakers are usually made of. If either denim or duck was made of undyed, unbleached fibers, the result would be somewhere on the beige to tan scale, depending on exactly what kind of cotton it was made from. Denim is traditionally made from bleached fibers where the warp threads (the ones that go up and down) are dyed with indigo to make them dark blue, while the weft threads (the ones that run side to side and are woven in) are left white. Because of the style of the weave, the resulting fabric looks blue. But if you’ve ever torn or cut your jeans, you’ll have seen the white fibers working loose. Denim refers to the style of weaving, however, and not the color. It’s just as much denim if it’s dyed gray or black or hot pink. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/12 "2015-02-02T14:55:12Z")
I believe “jeans” are indigo because that’s the color of dye that was durable and easy to get in the early Gold Rush era. The initial miner’s pants made by Levi’s (not Levi Strauss - there’s a tailor of another name in there, Jakob something?) were modeled after sailor’s pants and made from a huge load of undyed ship’s cloth. The color and rivets were added to make them more durable and look better without adequate washing - and so the style was set. I don’t believe the indigo color has any other source, although I’ve heard the indigo==denim trope as a folk etymology. ---
**Author:** ![misling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@misling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misling)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/13 "2015-02-02T21:36:34Z")
Quite a lot of modern ‘jeans’ are not denim at all. If you look closely at them, you will see they are plain weave (warp and weft crossing evenly 1 over 1), not a denim twill weave (warp crossing weft 2 over 1). Meaning, no tiny diagonal lines on the surface of the cloth. This is especially true of jeans with lycra. The lycra would cause the cloth to twist if it were woven in a 2/1 twill weave. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-color-of-denim/711440/14 "2015-02-02T22:08:08Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I believe “jeans” are indigo because that’s the color of dye that was durable and easy to get in the early Gold Rush era. The initial miner’s pants made by Levi’s (not Levi Strauss - there’s a tailor of another name in there, Jakob something?) were modeled after sailor’s pants and made from a huge load of undyed ship’s cloth. The color and rivets were added to make them more durable and look better without adequate washing - and so the style was set. > > I don’t believe the indigo color has any other source, although I’ve heard the indigo==denim trope as a folk etymology. The story I read goes that Levi had a supply of sturdy fabric and tried to sell tents to the prospectors during the 49 gold rush. Of course, this being California, tents were not that necessary - but pants were, even in California. Local prospectors complained their clothing fell apart from heavy use. He found that the sturdy denim tent material made more durable pants than plain cotton. The rivets were to reinforce the sewing so the pants wouldn’t fall apart as easily. Rumor has it that the decision to remove the copper rivet in the middle of the crotch was an executive decision taken after one of the members of the Strauss family sitting in front of a campfire for a while, then adjusted his fit.