# Original Dog: No Additives, No Preservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 7, 2000, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069 "2000-10-07T16:29:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2000, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/1 "2000-10-07T16:29:37Z")
- - - I notice that pictures of wolves show that they all usually look roughly similar, and that pictures of dingos also look pretty much all the same. If I want an original dog, or suppose, if I crossbreed every breed until all the individual breeds’ characteristics cancel each other out, what will the end result (dog) look like? - MC ---
**Author:** ![scratch1300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@scratch1300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch1300)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2000, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/2 "2000-10-07T16:48:11Z")
IIRC, where wild dogs breed for generations (in places like India) they are short-haired, brown, medium to large, with pricked ears. They look kinda like jackals… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2000, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/3 "2000-10-07T16:57:44Z")
I read an article a few years ago in the Smithsonian magazine about a guy who believes that the archtypcial wild dog is much as scratch describes. The same type of dog is found widely dispersed around the world (except Australia, I think), usually living on the fringes of human habitation - combination of hunter-scavenger. This guy, who lives somewhere in the US South, has started keeping “yellow dogs,” that live in the area, and is starting to do DNA analysis on them to test his theories. ---
**Author:** ![kuwatto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6a8cbe/32.png) [@kuwatto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kuwatto)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2000, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/4 "2000-10-07T17:20:54Z")
Well, the original dog is the wolf! That is why they get along with humans so well, they are adapted to living in a society that has as much in common with ours. Other wild canines like the coyote live a solitary existence and therefore form no bond to an “alpha” figure. There were probably 2 or 3 sub-species of wolf that have spawned all of domestic dogdom. We don’t know what kind of wolves these were because except for northern species they are all exctinct now. The closest relative in domestic dogs to the wolf is the Alaskan Malamute, it has been occasionally interbred with wolves for as long as people can remember. As you would suspect it pretty much looks like a wolf, except it is much heavier-set to pull freight on sleds and much, much more friendly to people. ---
**Author:** ![Skelji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Skelji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skelji)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2000, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/5 "2000-10-08T00:08:56Z")
I always try to get along with humans. Here’s a link to the Carolina Dog, which is pretty much what some of the earliest dogs look like, and similar to wild dogs elsewhere: [http://www.carolinadogs.org/](http://www.carolinadogs.org/) ---
**Author:** ![dragonlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@dragonlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dragonlady)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/6 "2000-10-09T04:19:26Z")
I read that with very few exceptions, less than a half dozen, all domestic dog breeds trace back to wolves. Its amazing what we’ve done to them! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/7 "2000-10-09T04:30:24Z")
What I want to know is, if the dogs are descended from wolves, then how come dogs that are feral for enough generations to breed back to wild characteristics always look more or less like dingos? Case in point, the aforementioned India street dogs and “yellow dogs”. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/8 "2000-10-09T04:49:21Z")
I thought _for sure_ this MC was gonna ask for recipe. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/9 "2000-10-09T04:51:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by black455 \* > \*\*I thought _for sure_ this MC was gonna ask for recipe. \*\* duh… …_that_ MC… ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/10 "2000-10-09T15:41:16Z")
> [@](#): > > I read that with very few exceptions, less than a half dozen, all domestic dog breeds trace back to wolves. Its amazing what we’ve done to them! - dragonlady - - - Which dog breeds do not trace back to wolves? - MC ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/11 "2000-10-09T17:18:07Z")
There is a breed of dog bred to hunt Puffins, that seems to have evolved from a heretofore unknown species. See here: [http://www.lundehund.com/history.html](http://www.lundehund.com/history.html) Also, some think that Pharaoh Hounds and Basenjis have some jackal origin, but there’s no real proof of that. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2000, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/12 "2000-10-09T17:34:10Z")
I’ve heard the jackal to greyhound thing myself but I’ve no way to tell what fact there might be in it. I do know that the Greyhound is the oldest known _breed_ of dog, going back about 4000 years. Originally bred for chasing antelope for the family table in Egypt. Or at least that’s where they were first recorded. I guess those dang wolves just didn’t have the requisite speed. As for how we got from the medium-size, stocky, thick-coated wolf to the tall, lanky, wire-haired greyhound I’ve no idea. And just to head it off…Greyhounds didn’t acquire their now-characteristic smooth coat until the late 1700-early 1800s when they were cross-bred with boxers for streamlining purposes. You can still occasionally see a ‘wiry’ greyhound but they’re not racers. Too much wind resistance. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/13 "2000-10-13T03:06:28Z")
Smithsonian, March 1999 Thea Logica - this article will answer your question. Some interesting information from this article: > [@](#): > > One explanation … is that the dog’s ancestors were wolves that split off from other wolf lineages 100,000 years ago, even though dogs themselves didn’t evolve until more recently > > … > > …biologists have believed that domestication took place over a long time… The transition period should provide lots of intermediate forms in the archeological record - only it doesn’t. Instead the bones of dogs suddenly pop up in archeological sites about 12,000 years ago, at the same time humans were abandoning their hunter-gatherer culture. > > Whether you’re talking about dogs, sheep (etc)… there are consistent differences between the wild and domesticated forms. … > Interestingly, all these differences are a consequence of change in developmental rates, …, which result in a sexually mature adult with the size and some of the characteristics of a juvenile of its ancestor… those developmental rates, in turn all appear to be controlled directly or indirectly by a single biochemical, thyroxine. > > … > > Crockford theorizes that in a sense, wild canids domesticated themselves. By creating a new environment, one in which food supplies were available to those wolves able to tolerate the presence of people, humans set the stage for rapid evolution. Fear is controlled, in part… (by) adrenaline production (which is) in turn, one of the many biological functions controlled by thyroxine. > In Crockford’s view, the less fearful wolves would thrive near settlements, scavenging garbage middens and filching meat from drying racks… Natural selection would favor canids with thyroxine that produce lower adrenal response… After just a few generations, she believes, the wolves living near humans would exhibit reproductive, physical and behavioral differences … that would set them apart from their wilder counterparts. Sorry for the length of the quote, but it has some interesting implications to me in evolutionary terms - i.e. selecting for a behavioral trait(something that wouldn’t be in the fossil record) made significant rapid changes to the animals physiology, which would show up in the fossil record. ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/14 "2000-10-13T05:23:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thea Logica \* > \*\*What I want to know is, if the dogs are descended from wolves, then how come dogs that are feral for enough generations to breed back to wild characteristics always look more or less like dingos? Case in point, the aforementioned India street dogs and “yellow dogs”. > \*\* [African wild dogs](http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/4533/africandog.jpg) sure don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/15 "2000-10-13T11:24:06Z")
Believe it or not, but I’ve been to that Carolina Dog page before, because my dog looks like a Carolina Dog. I even sent a picture of my dog to the guy who runs that site. Turns out I don’t have a Carolina Dog even though I live in North Carolina. It also turns out that my dog is a Canaan, which is also a breed that has been around awhile. I’m sure that I had these pieces put together before I started this post, but the solution to this puzzle eludes me know. Something about how wild dogs tend to end up looking like real old breeds or original dogs or something. Something, something, yadda, yadda, yadda. Hmm… I hope that clears up everyone’s questions on this topic. I really don’t see how anyone could have any more information to add since I have definitively covered all the bases. ---
**Author:** ![LisaRx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/77aa72/32.png) [@LisaRx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LisaRx)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2000, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-dog-no-additives-no-preservatives/36069/16 "2000-10-14T05:36:47Z")
I have a basenji, and I think that they are one of the breeds that don’t trace back to wolves. They are strange critters who do not have a pack mentality, in my experience.(kind of like having a dog with the attitude of a cat)