# Original Terminator movie question.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [July 2, 2015, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033 "2015-07-02T10:32:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/1 "2015-07-02T10:32:04Z")
Did Kyle Reese ever find out/realize he was John Connor’s father? I mean, he was pretty busy there before he died but surely he took a second to count, right? Also, does he show up in any of the other movies? Isn’t he about the same age as his son? And John Connor knew Kyle was his dad, right?
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### Author:  [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/2 "2015-07-02T10:52:28Z")
> [@Biggirl](#):
>
> Did Kyle Reese ever find out/realize he was John Connor’s father? I mean, he was pretty busy there before he died but surely he took a second to count, right? Also, does he show up in any of the other movies? Isn’t he about the same age as his son? And John Connor knew Kyle was his dad, right?
I haven’t seen the latest movie yet, so there could be something in there that contradicts my answers.
I think John Connor did know that Reese was his father. Sarah Connor, following T1, has become obsessed with the timeline, and ensuring that John will save humanity (don’t forget that according to Reese, humanity has won in the future, Skynet is smashed). She knows Reese is the father and tells John. I think John intentionally gave Sarah’s photo to Reese to promote Reese falling in love with Sarah. When the time comes to send somebody back in time, something he knows is going to happen, he picks Reese because he knows he has to in order to preserve the timeline.
Certainly there’s nothing in the movies to state that Reese knew. However, I have to think that after he had sex with Sarah he may have suspected. Reese understands how the timeline works and he likely clued in. I wonder if he knew that John’s father died pre-Judgement Day and thought “Ahhh crap”.
Reese shows up as a ghost in deleted scenes in T2. A younger Reese shows up in Terminator Salvation.
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### Author:  [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/3 "2015-07-02T11:06:21Z")
Thank you! That was fast.
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### Author:  [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/4 "2015-07-02T12:01:03Z")
I also just remembered. Young John states in T2 that his father and mother only had “one night together”. At that time, he doubts his mother’s story (“Sorry kid, didn’t you know your mom was psycho?”). But certainly by the end of the movie, he would be a believer. So if he knows about the one night, Sarah has almost certainly told John everything. So again, I think it likely that John knows Reese is his father. Of course at the end of the movie they think they’ve stopped Judgement Day (in the deleted scenes they have), but when Judgement Day still happens I bet it all comes back to him.
I can’t help but imagine Reese’s reaction in the future when John first gives him the photo. “Uhh… thanks John. Why are you giving me this?” “I dunno, it might come in handy some day. You should cherish it, and stare longingly at it whenever you can dad… dy-o.”
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/5 "2015-07-02T12:06:00Z")
> [@Biggirl](#):
>
> Thank you! That was fast.
Sarah Connor was disappointed.
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### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/6 "2015-07-03T16:53:57Z")
> [@Biggirl](#):
>
> Did Kyle Reese ever find out/realize he was John Connor’s father? I mean, he was pretty busy there before he died but surely he took a second to count, right? Also, does he show up in any of the other movies? Isn’t he about the same age as his son? And John Connor knew Kyle was his dad, right?
The movie just ran on SyFy the other night, so I just watched it on DVR.
Reese states he traveled through time to be with her. He says something cryptic about not knowing at the time why John gave him the picture. I think he suspects at that point it might be possible. But then he stiffens up and makes Sarah come over to him to pull him in.
As for age, Michael Biehn is about 27 when the movie was filmed, and looks late 20s. He explicitly states he grew up after the war. John Connor was born sometime early 1985, and the future is set at 2029, so that’s 44 or so years. So, no, they aren’t the same age.
And yes, Sarah tells John who his father is. In the final scene, she’s talking on the tape recorder and says she will tell him about his father, she owes Reese that.
I also spotted a discontinuity. On the police cruiser that the T101 steals and is cruising around the parking garage, the slogan on the door is “To care and protect”. When the cruiser is smashed into the wall, and Sarah looks over to see the driver missing, the slogan is “Dedicated to serve”.
> [@BeepKillBeep](#):
>
> I can’t help but imagine Reese’s reaction in the future when John first gives him the photo. “Uhh… thanks John. Why are you giving me this?” “I dunno, it might come in handy some day. You should cherish it, and stare longingly at it whenever you can dad… dy-o.”
It’s established that John is a strong leader by then, and Reese is a younger guy. It’s likely John took Reese in and kinda mentored him a bit - what with parenting being an iffy thing an all. John probably had a direct connection with a lot of guys and gals from the camp when they liberated themselves. It’s established that Sarah is something of a legend herself, the woman who made the man who is the savior. It wouldn’t be difficult to imagine a young, admiring guy ask his mentor about the legend, and John offhand (because he’s sneaky) saying he has a picture, pulling it out, and then letting Reese keep it out of some unexplained kindness. Knowing all along it would feed Reese’s desire.
When deciding who to go through, Reese said he volunteered. I suspect he wasn’t the only one, though he might have been the first and loudest, what with becoming infatuated with Sarah. I suspect it was easy for John to make that look natural and not forced. “Hmm, I see a sea of hands, let’s pick the quiet guy in the back who has his head down. Reese, get up here.” “Awww, why me?”
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/7 "2015-07-03T17:47:38Z")
But when did Reese know he was going to ever meet Sarah? (I doubt there’s any absolute answer, but it’s an interesting speculation.)
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### Author:  [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/8 "2015-07-03T18:54:53Z")
> [@Biggirl](#):
>
> Did Kyle Reese ever find out/realize he was John Connor’s father? I mean, he was pretty busy there before he died but surely he took a second to count, right? Also, does he show up in any of the other movies? Isn’t he about the same age as his son? And John Connor knew Kyle was his dad, right?
No he never did. He didn’t even know Sarah was pregnant when he was killed.
On another note, Michael Biehn really was the unsung hero of the franchise and I’m still pissed at what a horrible job they did casting and and portraying Kyle Reese in Terminator: Genysis.
I hope it flops.
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/9 "2015-07-03T18:57:24Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#):
>
> On another note, Michael Biehn really was the unsung hero of the franchise and I’m still pissed at what a horrible job they did casting and and portraying Kyle Reese in Terminator: Genysis.
Are you saying they bit the hand that fed them? 😃
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/10 "2015-07-03T20:20:01Z")
> [@Irishman](#):
>
> I also spotted a discontinuity. On the police cruiser that the T101 steals and is cruising around the parking garage, the slogan on the door is “To care and protect”. When the cruiser is smashed into the wall, and Sarah looks over to see the driver missing, the slogan is “Dedicated to serve”.
What’s wrong with that, the collision scrambled the letters. Those phrases are anagrams, right?
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### Author:  [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/11 "2015-07-03T21:09:11Z")
In honour of this thread, and since I’m going to see the newest Terminator movie on Tuesday, I’m re-watching all four movies this weekend.
I’ll have be careful that my AI algorithms don’t get any ideas.
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### Author:  [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/12 "2015-07-03T23:30:31Z")
I’ve often wondered what happened in the Prime timeline. I’ve often thought it would be something like this.
- Skynet is built.
- Judgement Day happens.
- Humanity fights back and smashes Skynet possibly without John Connor, but certainly with a John Connor that is not the son of Kyle Reese. Possibly these battles are VERY close.
- Skynet in a desperate attempt to salvage the situations sends a terminator back in time.
- The attempt fails; however, no matter what Judgement Day continues to happen and humanity defeats Skynet post Judgement Day.
- Maybe with each iteration things are getting better for Skynet. Perhaps it is able to send itself a brief message from the past that says “Keep going back in time”.
- However, after N iterations, a leader emerges (possibly, if not likely, John Connor) that really mucks things up. Skynet targets Sarah Connor for termination.
- John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time.
- Kyle Reese hooks up with Sarah Connor and a new version of John Connor is born. The son of Kyle Reese. This time, an improved John Connor, perhaps because Sarah Connor is able to better train him thanks to knowledge from Kyle Reese, really wrecks Skynet.
- The events of the Terminator movies takes place.
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2015, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/13 "2015-07-04T07:56:16Z")
I thought the first one was a stable time loop.
Of course, none of the later ones are.
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### Author:  [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2015, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/14 "2015-07-04T09:50:25Z")
You could look at it that way, I suppose, but to me there has to be an original timeline where there is no son of Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor. There can’t be as Kyle hasn’t been born or gone back in time yet. From that timeline emerges the one we see in the movie that creates the loop. They should make that movie as a prequel.
Anybody want to lend me $50,000,000 and I’ll get right on it? 🙂
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2015, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/15 "2015-07-04T10:13:19Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#):
>
> You could look at it that way, I suppose, but to me there has to be an original timeline where there is no son of Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor. There can’t be as Kyle hasn’t been born or gone back in time yet. From that timeline emerges the one we see in the movie that creates the loop. They should make that movie as a prequel.
>
> Anybody want to lend me $50,000,000 and I’ll get right on it? 🙂
The first movie is explicitly a stable time loop. There was never a 1984 where Reese and the Terminator didn’t come back, Reese was always John’s father. The movie makes clear in a deleted scene the only reason Cyberdyne built Skynet was because they found the Terminator remains in their factory.
What happened always happened.
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### Author:  [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2015, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/16 "2015-07-04T10:22:08Z")
No, that’s not necessarily true. In the timeline we see Cyberdyne built Skynet because of the Terminator remains, but that doesn’t mean that Skynet wasn’t built in the prime timeline without the need of Terminator remains. This is supported by Terminator 3, where Skynet is built without the Terminator remains.
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2015, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/17 "2015-07-04T10:46:53Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#):
>
> No, that’s not necessarily true. In the timeline we see Cyberdyne built Skynet because of the Terminator remains, but that doesn’t mean that Skynet wasn’t built in the prime timeline without the need of Terminator remains. This is supported by Terminator 3, where Skynet is built without the Terminator remains.
I’m not considering the later films in the franchise, seen on its own it is pretty clear there was never an original timeline.
Remember the picture of Sarah Reese had in the future? We see it get taken in the last scene, if the events of the movie never occurred the picture could not exist.
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### Author:  [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2015, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/18 "2015-07-04T10:56:47Z")
Again, that’s certainly one way of looking at it, but an alternate view is that there is a prime timeline(s) which predates the events of the movie. I personally find it interesting to ponder the possible events which predate the movie. It certainly isn’t canon, just some thoughts.
The picture can exist as an outcome of the events of time loop N-1 (where N is the time loop we see in the movie). That’s kind of my whole point, is that over the course of N iterations the elements we see in the movie could have been added iteratively to the timeline.
If you’re not considering future movies, than there is nothing in the first movie which says that Skynet was created as an outcome of the Terminator coming back in time. That was introduced in Terminator 2.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/original-terminator-movie-question/724033/19 "2015-07-04T11:35:56Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#):
>
> I’ve often wondered what happened in the Prime timeline. I’ve often thought it would be something like this.
>
> - Skynet is built.
> - Judgement Day happens.
> - Humanity fights back and smashes Skynet possibly without John Connor
Possibly with a dude who looks like Keanu Reeves.