### Author:  [@vandergeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandergeld)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2000, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/1 "2000-07-01T01:17:51Z")
I read that the phrase “the real McCoy” came from a whisky smuggler named McCoy (his product being “real Scots whisky” in the prohibition era of bad booze), and I’ve heard the supposed origins of “straight dope” in a drug potency yarn that I didn’t believe…how did Cecil decide to call the column that? The answer may already exist on this site or in a book, but I couldn’t find it…
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### Author:  [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2000, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/2 "2000-07-01T01:49:35Z")
From [http://www.m-w.com](http://www.m-w.com)
Dope
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> 4 : information especially from a reliable source \
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### Author:  [@m3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/m3)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2000, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/3 "2000-07-01T02:23:04Z")
pepperlandgirl presented a plausible reason why Cecil chose the term, but I’m still curious about the origins of the phrase.
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### Author:  [@Dumb\_Ox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumb_Ox)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2000, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/4 "2000-07-01T03:06:08Z")
From [Dave Wilton’s Etymology Page](http://www.wilton.net/wordord.htm):
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> “Dope” is a relatively recent addition to the language, appearing in the United States in the nineteenth century. It derives from the Dutch _doop_, meaning “sauce.” Its first uses were for any thick, viscous liquid. Later several distinct senses arose.
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> Its first known appearance in the language is from Washington Irving, who in 1807 spelled it _doup_ and used it to mean “sauce.” The use of “dope” to mean “sauce” can still be found today, but it is rare.
As Dave further explains,
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> The sense of “dope” meaning “information” dates to around 1900. This sense was first used in the horse-racing world. Knowing which horse was doped was valuable inside information.
Pretty cool.
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### Author:  [@jamshid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jamshid)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2000, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/5 "2000-07-01T03:14:21Z")
Hopefully this won’t get me booted.
Isn’t it a description of Anita Bryant?
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### Author:  [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2000, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/6 "2000-07-01T03:51:12Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*\*
> I read that the phrase “the real McCoy” came from a whisky smuggler named McCoy (his product being “real Scots whisky” in the prohibition era of bad booze)
\*\*
Nope. The “Real” McCoy was Elijah McCoy, a black mechanical engineer. Here’s his story:
Elijah McCoy was born on May 2, 1844. Elijah McCoy helped in the changing of the economy. His first invention, “The real McCoy,” (the lubricating cup) was put into the steam cylinders of the trains and other machinery. With this, locomotives would not have to stop to be lubricated. This made railroads run faster. He also invented the ironing table. This was due to his wife, Mary, having nowhere to iron clothes. Also the sprinkler came from his own question of how to water his garden more efficiently. The invention of the overflow pipe equaled the steam pressure going to and from the engine. Separate from the steam supply pipe, it also allowed the oil through the cylinders. This gave a thorough lubrication of the engine. Another one of his inventions, a lubrication system for air brakes, was a mixture of oil and graphite. This was applied into the pistons in the steam cylinders. The invention improved the safety and effectiveness of air brakes. Elijah McCoy’s inventions all helped in creating an improved economy.
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*
> , and I’ve heard the supposed origins of “straight dope” in a drug potency yarn that I didn’t believe…how did Cecil decide to call the column that? The answer may already exist on this site or in a book, but I couldn’t find it…
> \*\*
I don’t know why he named the column that. I know where the term “Straight Dope” came from, but that’s not what you asked.
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### Author:  [@vandergeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandergeld)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2000, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/7 "2000-07-01T03:59:08Z")
So why is it the “real” McCoy? Were there other shoddy oil lube cups? Surely he didn’t name it “the real McCoy”…
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### Author:  [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2000, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/8 "2000-07-01T04:04:42Z")
The Word Detective’s [take](http://www.word-detective.com/051600.html#realmccoy) on the Reak McCoy.
Summary, no one knows for sure. His guess is the bootlegger, but that’s just a guess. Based on the first citation, Elijah McCoy seems unlikely, but not impossible.
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### Author:  [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2000, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/9 "2000-07-01T05:11:27Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*
> The Word Detective’s [take](http://www.word-detective.com/051600.html#realmccoy) on the Reak McCoy.
>
> Summary, no one knows for sure. His guess is the bootlegger, but that’s just a guess. Based on the first citation, Elijah McCoy seems unlikely, but not impossible.
> \*\*
No, somebody DOES know for sure. I provided the difinitive answer. Go look it up on http//www.historychannel.com.
Knock-offs were not as good. people asked (referring to drop-lubricators) “Is this the real McCoy?”
I do not defer to The Word Detective on this. Of course, this is not the first time that he has been wrong, or me either. But I am willing to bet a Pepsi on this one.
“The problem with being a genius is the kind of people you have to hang around with.” - TB
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### Author:  [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2000, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/10 "2000-07-01T05:14:57Z")
This damned keyboard has started spelling words by itself again. “Definitive” being one of them.
“Oops! The fuck-up fairy has visited us again!”
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### Author:  [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2000, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/11 "2000-07-03T19:23:56Z")
Re: “dope” as any thick liquid.
The wax used on skis was once commonly called “dope.” Much of it was home-made, and of course everyone thought that their super-secret formula gave them the slickest skis around.
In an early 1980s article on Northern California (IIRC), National Geographic had a page or two on the late 19th Century skiing craze. One of the photos with the article was of a poster advertising a “ski-ing” (sic) contest, and the heading of the poster was DOPE IS KING! in foot-high letters. I kid you not!! I literally almost fell out of my chair laughing when I saw that.
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### Author:  [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2000, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/12 "2000-07-04T01:11:26Z")
> [@](#):
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> No, somebody DOES know for sure. I provided the difinitive answer. Go look it up on http//www.historychannel.com.
While your answer is certainly a strong possibility, TC, it isn’t definitive. On the surface there is nothing about your story that makes it more true than the Prohibition story. Additionally, the various information channels (History Channel, Discovery, TLC) have been known on occasion to vector false information.
I’m not saying it’s wrong, but there’s nothing about the information as presented that makes it more plausible than Bill McCoy’s bootlegging story. So I don’t think the issue is solved just yet.
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### Author:  [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2000, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-phrase-straight-dope/24226/13 "2000-08-29T19:31:52Z")
So it’s an old thread, but I actually would like to know the story that wasn’t asked for in the OP, i.e. how ‘straight dope’ came to be such a common phrase
panama jack
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