# Origins of "You can't swing a cat"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 20, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171 "2004-05-20T13:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jfortun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2acd7d/32.png) [@jfortun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jfortun)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/1 "2004-05-20T13:23:17Z")
You can’t swing a cat on the net without finding someone using this phrase but I am hard pressed to find an explanation of it’s origins. Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/2 "2004-05-20T13:26:49Z")
I see to recall it appears in one of Mark Twain’s works. Or maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/3 "2004-05-20T13:33:57Z")
A related expression appears in _Tom Sawyer_, something about trading for a dead cat and a string to swing it on. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/4 "2004-05-20T13:34:14Z")
> [@](#): > > There are two theories about “not enough room to swing a cat,” neither of them very cheerful. One is that the phrase refers to the “cat o’nine tails,” a nine-thonged whip used in the days of square-rigged ships to discipline unruly sailors. This “cat” got its name from the fact that the welts it left on a sailor’s back looked like enormous cat scratches. Most such whippings took place on the open deck, both as an example to the rest of the crew and because in the cramped quarters belowdecks there was “not enough room to swing a cat.” > > The other, less cat-friendly theory is that the phrase refers to literally swinging a cat around by its tail. This version seems to have quite a bit more evidence in its favor, the phrase having come into use in the mid-17th century and being used with clear reference to actual cats ever since, including in Charles Dickens’ “David Copperfield.” from [word-detective](http://www.word-detective.com/back-h2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/5 "2004-05-20T13:50:16Z")
> [@Padeye](#): > > A related expression appears in _Tom Sawyer_, something about trading for a dead cat and a string to swing it on. Trivia: Oddly enough, using the “Search inside this book” feature at Amazon, the [actual quote](http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/051722108X/ref=sib_rdr_srch/103-6305090-1511805?v=search-inside&keywords=string&x=10&y=10) seems to be: “Johnny Miller bought in for a dead rat and a string to swing it with” ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/6 "2004-05-21T04:07:18Z")
Of course, there’s the dead cat version, which goes something like this- “You can’t swing a dead cat in Minnesota without hitting a Johnson.” You can substitute anything that is very very common in a particular area. Or, since our last name is Johnson, we prefer “You can’t swing your johnson without hitting a dead cat!” ---
**Author:** ![citrus\_x\_paradisi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6f9a4e/32.png) [@citrus\_x\_paradisi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/citrus_x_paradisi)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/7 "2004-05-21T04:16:35Z")
It’s part of the “you can’t verb a noun without verbing a noun” family. I’ve heard “throw a rock” more than this colorful variant, but it’s probably due to the cited Clemens usage. Thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/8 "2004-05-21T06:16:03Z")
I thought it was you can’t swing your johnson without hitting… Damn, sorry about misquoting Train, thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![Fornit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@Fornit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fornit)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/9 "2004-05-22T10:41:42Z")
[http://www3.telus.net/dancinpete/thoughts/Swing%20Dancin.html](http://www3.telus.net/dancinpete/thoughts/Swing%20Dancin.html) not really fighting ignorance, but at least fighting boredom. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/10 "2004-05-22T12:38:55Z")
I realize that this is GQ, and here I come with no cites but as the phrase was originally explained to me (by a Texan) when I first heard it, the usage was much more specific. It was basically along the lines of: “If you’re going to swing a cat, be careful you don’t hit one.” It was meant to draw attention to the possibility that someone to whom certain negative comments would apply might overhear such comments from your own conversation. e.g. You are a hateful homophobe and are having a private conversation with your hateful homophobe friends and you say, “Those damn faggots, why are they so gay!” But, although your conversation is private, you are in a public place surrounded by people, some of whom could by gay. Your comment about gay people is the **cat being swung** a gay person within earshot is the **cat being hit**. Therefore, if you’re going to swing a cat be careful you don’t hit one QED. Pretty complicated to be sure, but Texans are quite colorful in their use of language (note: it was one individual Texan who shared this info with me, I can not suggest that other texans are familiar with this use of the phrase). Again, I have no cite so I’ll be interested to hear if anyone else is familiar with thiis usage. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/11 "2004-05-22T14:16:52Z")
I could have sworn Cecil did a column on this, but I can’t locate it. Hey, maybe it was coined by Miles Davis? ---
**Author:** ![Craneop2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Craneop2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Craneop2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/12 "2004-05-22T20:33:31Z")
**For petes sake!** Can we have ONE thread that doesn’t include some manner of hateful homophobe or pro gay subliminal message in it? How the hell do you in ANY way equate swinging a cat, and possible etymology, with some “hatefull homophobe” mention? SHEESH :wally Sorry didn’t mean to hijack! ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/13 "2004-05-22T21:51:53Z")
Yeah you loving homolover! ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/14 "2004-05-22T23:11:46Z")
[QUOTE=Craneop2How the hell do you in ANY way equate swinging a cat, and possible etymology, with some “hatefull homophobe” mention?[/QUOTE] Full size tom , three feet from tail end to head Swinging said feline in a three sixty degree radius will give you about 12 square feet of room, in which possible persons listening in on a conversation , may hear any references to the aforementioned “hateful homophobe mention” Basically if anyone is gonna have a colorful conversation , beware who is standing near you. Declan ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/15 "2004-05-23T08:12:57Z")
[QUOTE=Craneop2] **For petes sake!** Can we have ONE thread that doesn’t include some manner of hateful homophobe or pro gay subliminal message in it? How the hell do you in ANY way equate swinging a cat, and possible etymology, with some “hatefull homophobe” mention? SHEESH :wally QUOTE] There is no direct connection at all. I don’t believe I suggested any direct connection- **Declan** understood without any trouble. I could just as easily have said: “you say, ‘People who wear flannel underwear are stupid!’ But, although your conversation is private, you are in a public place surrounded by people, some of whom could be wearing flannel underwear.” In this case the comment about flannel underwear is the cat being swung, a person within earshot who is wearing flannel underwear is the cat being hit. If I realize that someone nearby might be wearing flannel underwear I might admonish that there is “not enough room to swing a cat.” The reason I didn’t use the flannel underwear example is because it is a silly example. The phrase as I’ve heard it used specifically applies to speech that could be offensive, combative, or hurtful. An anti-gay comment seemed a clear enough example, as would a racist comment, an anti-Democrat comment, an anti-Republican comment, an anti-Christian comment, an anti-Semitic comment, blah, blah, blah. **Craneop2** , if you feel I was trying to brainwash you, subvert you, undermine your way of life, or tear away at the fabric of society- I sincerely apologize. That was not my intention. ---
**Author:** ![tekenia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@tekenia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tekenia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/16 "2010-07-27T00:48:58Z")
To swing a cat has NOTHING to do with tom sawyer, or mark twain. in the story, tom gets traded a “tresure trove” of items, 2 of them being a dead RAT with a string to “SWING” it with, and a KITTEN with only one eye, no cat swinging guys sorry, almost lost a bet becouse you “DOPES” have so many forum posts claiming its a cat… HAD TO LOOK UP THE DAM BOOK MYSELF TO GET THE RIGHT ANSWER. ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/17 "2010-07-27T00:59:47Z")
Ah, good, it only took 6 years to get to the bottom of that one. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-you-cant-swing-a-cat/246171/18 "2010-07-27T01:04:52Z")
> [@tekenia](#): > > To swing a cat has NOTHING to do with tom sawyer, or mark twain. in the story, tom gets traded a “tresure trove” of items, 2 of them being a dead RAT with a string to “SWING” it with, and a KITTEN with only one eye, no cat swinging guys sorry, almost lost a bet becouse you “DOPES” have so many forum posts claiming its a cat… HAD TO LOOK UP THE DAM BOOK MYSELF TO GET THE RIGHT ANSWER. Welcome to the Boards. You could have saved yourself the trouble by reading post #5, where one of our members searched the book on Amazon and found what you just said. Of course, this thread was over about six years ago. Since you haven’t added any new information, I’ll close this one as a Zombie thread. **samclem** Moderator, General Questions