# Origins of "You're welcome" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 13, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851 "2013-03-13T20:24:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/41 "2013-03-15T03:09:47Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Because it’s obnoxious to behave as if you’ve earned gratitude. A person who holds the social upper hand, such as in the form of being owed a social debt, should never behave as if it’s true. Once someone has offered thanks or apology, your must make them feel like they don’t need to. Once the concession is made, if you act as if you were really owed it, that’s asserting social power over someone. Only assholes do that. So all British people are assholes. I see. Well, I wish I had your mastery of the absolutes of etiquette. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/42 "2013-03-15T03:16:45Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > So all British people are assholes. I see. Well, I wish I had your mastery of the absolutes of etiquette. Why would you remove a cultural perception from its context? You’re the the one applying it absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/43 "2013-03-15T03:30:51Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I think it means: “You’re welcome [to whatever gift or service I just gave to you].” > > Example: Neighbor brings me a bottle of wine, as a gift. > > Me: Thank you. > Neighbor: You’re welcome. [to the bottle of wine] > [@Acsenray](#): > > This is my sense: > > “You need not have thanked me, because you are welcome to whatever it was you thanked me for.” Okay, I can see the point you’re making. But if that’s the case the order of the ritual seems wrong. For example: You: “Have you got a pen I can borrow?” Me: “Here you go.” You: “Thank you.” Me: “You’re welcome.” If the “You’re welcome” is supposed to imply “You’re welcome to the use of this pen” then I should say it as I handed the pen to you not in response to you thanking me for it. But you’d never see the following exchange: You: “Have you got a pen I can borrow?” Me: “You’re welcome.” You: “Thank you.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/44 "2013-03-15T03:36:41Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I’m not sure of the derivation, but it is interesting that the O.E.D. has no citation for that usage prior to 1909. I wonder what people used to say in response to “Thank you.” I’ve actually started paying attention to 18th and 19th century literature that I have been reading over the last few years, but I have not stumbled upon any examples of a response to “Thank you.” > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > ## Concurring, my search of google books before 1939 was pretty flimsy. Here are some examples anyway: > > Boys Life Dec 1919: > “Thank you very much for your courtesy Mr. . . .” > > “My name is Harry Thurston. You are very welcome.” > [Boys' Life - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=JgfATmEQSQgC&pg=PA12&dq=Thank+you+You%27re+welcome&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mnxCUcixB4fC2wWL2YHIAg&ved=0CFMQ6AEwBzhk#v=onepage&q=Thank%20you%20You%27re%20welcome&f=false) > > * * * > > Black Beauty: The Autobiography of a Horse By Anna Sewell > orig published 1877. 1895 version. > > “Thank you a thousand times,” she said. “I could have never got here alone.” > > “You’re kindly welcome; and I hope the dear child will soon be better.” > > ## [Black Beauty: The Autobiography of a Horse - Anna Sewell - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=5UE1AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA214&dq=Thank+you+You%27re+welcome&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5H1CUfnVHfGA2AXqhoDwCQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAThu#v=onepage&q=Thank%20you%20You%27re%20welcome&f=false) > > And this supports Nemo’s earlier hypothesis: > Every Body’s Album Volume 1 > Charles Alexander, 1836 > > “Snip, snap, snorum,” said the parson – for it was he who had renounced: “I beg pardon, gentlemen.” > > “You are most welcome to it, sir,” said William; “for on that renounce we count three more, which gives us exactly the game and the rubber.” I’m not sure what they’re getting at here, but it’s easy to imagine “You are most welcome to it” becoming contracted to “You’re welcome”. > [Every Body's Album - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=3FRBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA252&dq=Thank+you+You%27re+welcome&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rX9CUe6JFebL2QXl04CoBw&ved=0CC4Q6AEwADiCAQ#v=onepage&q=Thank%20you%20You%27re%20welcome&f=false) This seems like the best approach. If we could trace the phrase back to its earliest use, we could presumably see it evolving from its original literal sense to its current ritual usage. The problem is that the 1877 and 1919 examples cited are already using the phrase in its ritual sense and the 1836 cite uses it in its literal sense but not in response to somebody offering thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/45 "2013-03-15T04:38:13Z")
I found a book from 1842 (the handwritten note says that version is from 1853), [The Old Sea Captain](http://books.google.com/books?id=e_wlAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA59&dq=welcome+you're+%22thank+you%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_6NCUfChFa-p4AOB6ICADA&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBDge#v=onepage&q=welcome%20you're%20%22thank%20you%22&f=false) > [@](#): > > “Farewell, Captain. Once more we thank you for the account of the hearty old boatswain.” > > “Farewell, boys! You’re heartily welcome. Farewell.” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/46 "2013-03-15T06:29:15Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > As to “no problem,” it is pretty clearly the same idea expressed by the Spanish “_de nada_” (of nothing), meaning that it was not a problem for me to provide this service or gift (and you should not be embarrassed to accept it). _For nothing_, actually. _De_ is possibly the Spanish preposition which has more different translations into English: of, from, for, on, in… Translating it as “of” is more likely to be wrong than right. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/47 "2013-03-15T07:37:43Z")
I think _Andy L_ is correct in his interpretation. Myself, I don’t know crap but I read a lot. Used to, (Middle Ages) when a traveler needed to impose on someone for shelter and food, that homeowner was compelled to provide it…as he might find himself in the same predictament sometime. It was “the law of the land.” “You’re welcome” may be short for “You are welcome to whatever I have that you may need.” ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/48 "2013-03-15T08:04:47Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > If I ask a favor of you and I then thank you, “No problem” is a perfectly reasonable response. But if I buy something at a store and say “thank you” when the cashier hands my bag to me, “no problem” is a jarring response. I got jumped for my feelings about this a while back. When a clerk (and I understand your difference) answers “No problem” to a Thank You, like they’re doing _you_ a favor, I want to say “I should hope not, as you’re only doing your job.” I “get” generational laxities (???) but when did me spending my money with you become a “burden” I hope you won’t hold against me? “No problem” does not show appreciation but is polarizing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/49 "2013-03-15T14:32:19Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > I got jumped for my feelings about this a while back. When a clerk (and I understand your difference) answers “No problem” to a Thank You, like they’re doing _you_ a favor, I want to say “I should hope not, as you’re only doing your job.” I “get” generational laxities (???) but when did me spending my money with you become a “burden” I hope you won’t hold against me? > “No problem” does not show appreciation but is polarizing. As I’ve said, I feel the exact opposite is the case. A person saying “no problem” is telling you that he _doesn’t_ feel he’s doing you a favor - that he regards whatever he did to be of such small consequence that nothing is owed to him as a result. But I think these posts illustrate the issue from my OP. “No problem” is a relatively new greeting and it hasn’t become common enough to be purely ritual. People feel it means something, even if they debate what the meaning is. And there must have been a similar period when “you’re welcome” engendered the same response. People must have been saying things like, _“I thanked a servant today and he said I was welcome. Who did he think he was? It’s my house so how can he welcome me to it?”_ ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/50 "2013-03-15T14:57:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As I’ve said, I feel the exact opposite is the case. A person saying “no problem” is telling you that he _doesn’t_ feel he’s doing you a favor - that he regards whatever he did to be of such small consequence that nothing is owed to him as a result. Right. Exactly: “No thanks are necessary.” That’s what all these things mean – No problem, no worries, no bother, not a problem, it’s nothing, de nada, you’re alright, you’re welcome, don’t mention it, it’s my pleasure, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/51 "2013-03-15T15:03:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Right. Exactly: “No thanks are necessary.” That’s what all these things mean – No problem, no worries, no bother, not a problem, it’s nothing, de nada, you’re alright, you’re welcome, don’t mention it, it’s my pleasure, etc. But they all start out having meaning and only become meaningless ritual phrases through the passage of time. If you don’t believe this, try starting a new ritual response. When people say “thank you” respond “it’s free”. The fact that you’re using a non-ritual response will cause people to stop and wonder what you meant by that and many of them will ask you why you said it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/52 "2013-03-15T15:19:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The fact that you’re using a non-ritual response will cause people to stop and wonder what you meant by that and many of them will ask you why you said it. Is that what people do when they hear an unfamiliar phrase? Or do they take the context into account and realize that it’s just a new variation on a standard ritual? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/53 "2013-03-15T20:42:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Is that what people do when they hear an unfamiliar phrase? Or do they take the context into account and realize that it’s just a new variation on a standard ritual? I’m not saying you’re going to get slapped for saying it or anything. But people will notice you said it and think about what you said. That isn’t the response to ritual phrases, which by definition don’t require any thought. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/54 "2013-03-17T02:17:37Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Black Beauty: The Autobiography of a Horse By Anna Sewell > orig published 1877. 1895 version. > > “Thank you a thousand times,” she said. “I could have never got here alone.” > > “You’re kindly welcome; and I hope the dear child will soon be better.” > > ## [Black Beauty: The Autobiography of a Horse - Anna Sewell - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=5UE1AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA214&dq=Thank+you+You%27re+welcome&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5H1CUfnVHfGA2AXqhoDwCQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAThu#v=onepage&q=Thank%20you%20You%27re%20welcome&f=false) > > And this supports Nemo’s earlier hypothesis: > Every Body’s Album Volume 1 > Charles Alexander, 1836 > > “Snip, snap, snorum,” said the parson – for it was he who had renounced: “I beg pardon, gentlemen.” > > “You are most welcome to it, sir,” said William; “for on that renounce we count three more, which gives us exactly the game and the rubber.” I’m not sure what they’re getting at here, but it’s easy to imagine “You are most welcome to it” becoming contracted to “You’re welcome”. > [Every Body's Album - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=3FRBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA252&dq=Thank+you+You%27re+welcome&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rX9CUe6JFebL2QXl04CoBw&ved=0CC4Q6AEwADiCAQ#v=onepage&q=Thank%20you%20You%27re%20welcome&f=false) You might want to call the O.E.D.‘s editors’ attention to the Black Beauty citation. That would push back their date. The Boys Life quote comes 10 years after the current cited first reference. The Every Body’s Album reference to seems to more along the lines of “welcoming” a person to a victory as one would welcome one to a home. = = = = = I am not surprised to discover that there was no earlier reply to “thank you,” I just note that I have not yet found one in 18th or 19th century literature. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851/55 "2013-03-17T19:06:15Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You might want to call the O.E.D.‘s editors’ attention to the Black Beauty citation. ## Done. **Just adding to the references: A Baseline?** ## This 1711 play _Love’s Riddle_ uses the word “Welcome” eight times across two pages. It seems to be more of an expression of acceptance than hospitality, if I am reading it correctly. Which I may not be and the distinction is blurry anyway. [The Works of Mr. Abraham Cowley ...: Consisting of Those which Were Formerly ... - Abraham Cowley - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=MSZEAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA78&dq=thank+you+you%27re+welcome&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RhBGUfT6OYTw2gXqwoGAAw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=thank%20you%20you%27re%20welcome&f=false) Also, I thanked workers at Home Depot twice the other evening and received no response. That’s data, not a complaint: the interaction was normal and I wouldn’t have noted it except I had been reading this thread earlier. Also, I said it as I turned to leave, so calling out a response might have been odd. It occurs to me that “You’re welcome” is slightly formal and the US has been trending towards informality since WWI. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origins-of-youre-welcome/652851.md?page=2)