# Orin Hatch--running scared of the Tea Party
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 13, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480 "2010-07-13T01:12:35Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/1 "2010-07-13T01:12:35Z")
> [@Orrin Hatch](#):
>
> "I have carefully examined Solicitor General Elena Kagan’s record, actively participated in the entire Judiciary Committee hearing, and considered the views of supporters and opponents from Utah and across the country. Qualifications for judicial service include both legal experience and, more importantly, the appropriate judicial philosophy. The law must control the judge; the judge must not control the law. I have concluded that, based on evidence rather than blind faith, General Kagan regrettably does not meet this standard and that, therefore, I cannot support her appointment.
>
> "Supreme Court Justices who, like General Kagan, had no prior judicial experience did have an average of 21 years in private legal practice. General Kagan has two. The fact that her experience is instead academic and political only magnifies my emphasis on judicial philosophy as the most important qualification for judicial service.
>
> "Over nearly 25 years, General Kagan has endorsed, and praised those who endorse, an activist judicial philosophy. I was surprised when she encouraged us at the hearing simply to discard or ignore certain parts of her record. I am unable to do that. I also cannot ignore disturbing situations in which it appears that her personal or political views drove her legal views. She promoted the Clinton administration’s extreme position on abortion, including the barbaric practice of partial-birth abortion.
>
> As Dean of Harvard Law School, she blocked the access by military recruiters that federal law requires. And she took legal positions on important issues such as freedom of speech that could undermine the liberties of all Americans.
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> “General Kagan is a good person, a skilled political lawyer, a brilliant scholar, and was a fine law school dean. I like her personally and I supported her to be Solicitor General. But applying the standard I have always used for judicial nominees, I cannot support her appointment to the Supreme Court.”
Run, Orrin, Run! They got your colleague, now they’re coming after you.
You actually weren’t the worst conservative in the world. You’ve been pretty good. But now, you’re just trying to save your ass. Like many other conservative Republicans. The hyper-conservatives are after you. You caved. You deserve your fate.
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### Author:  [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/2 "2010-07-13T01:16:37Z")
> [@samclem](#):
>
> You deserve your fate.
Which will be what exactly? To get pitted and pilloried by liberal douches on these here internets?
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### Author:  [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/3 "2010-07-13T01:17:46Z")
LOL… one could say that McCain and Hatch are reading the “tea leaves” LOL.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/4 "2010-07-13T01:32:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#):
>
> Which will be what exactly? To get pitted and pilloried by liberal douches on these here internets?
I may be a douche, but I’m no liberal. Orin is out of bounds here. He doesn’t get to pick the candidate, or determine what judicial philosophy that candidate should follow. That’s bullshit. The scope of his inquiry should be…is she a lawyer in good standing in all jurisdictions where she’s been admitted? Yes. Does she have any pending criminal charges? No. Does she appear to be batshit insane? No. Can she obtain a security clearance, if SCOTUS appointees are required to have one (I don’t know.)? If required and she can, then she appears to be at least minimally qualified for the job. And I don’t think there is even a constitutional requirement that she be a lawyer, but I may be mistaken.
She is not the person I’d pick for the job. I will likely strongly disagree with many of her rulings. But Obama won the election, and holds the right to chose the candidate he thinks suitable for the job.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/5 "2010-07-13T01:36:27Z")
**Oakminster** : Are you unfamiliar with the concept of presidential nominations and congressional approval?
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/6 "2010-07-13T01:43:06Z")
> [@Monty](#):
>
> **Oakminster** : Are you unfamiliar with the concept of presidential nominations and congressional approval?
Are you a professional asshole, or just playing one here?
Obama gets to chose the nominee. Senate gets to confirm that nominee. It’s intended to be a relatively straightforward process…is the person at least minimally qualified? Then approved. POTUS has no obligation to nominate the best available candidate. That would be me, and my phone ain’t ringing. POTUS is obligated to choose a candidate that can do the job.
It is not supposed to be some partisan pissing match where the minority party dissects everything the woman has ever written, and withholds confirmation because they don’t like her fucking judicial philosophy.
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### Author:  [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/7 "2010-07-13T01:45:26Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> He doesn’t get to . . . determine what judicial philosophy that candidate should follow.
Well, actually, he sorta does. A potential Justice’s judicial philosophy (or _potential_ judicial philosophy–to account for those who are not yet judges and the fact that a person’s judicial philosophy is subject to change and may be difficult to determine) is probably the most important thing that a Senator should take into account when deciding whether or not to confirm a Justice.
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### Author:  [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/8 "2010-07-13T01:46:39Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> Are you a professional asshole, or just playing one here?
>
> Obama gets to chose the nominee. Senate gets to confirm that nominee. It’s intended to be a relatively straightforward process…is the person at least minimally qualified? Then approved. POTUS has no obligation to nominate the best available candidate. That would be me, and my phone ain’t ringing. POTUS is obligated to choose a candidate that can do the job.
>
> It is not supposed to be some partisan pissing match where the minority party dissects everything the woman has ever written, and withholds confirmation because they don’t like her fucking judicial philosophy.
When you say “supposed to”–where are you getting that from? What’s the obligation on a Senator not to look at a potential Justice’s potential judicial philosophy?
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/9 "2010-07-13T01:48:32Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#):
>
> Which will be what exactly? To get pitted and pilloried by liberal douches on these here internets?
Nope. I truly think he’s thinking ahead about his career.
I and the other posters here won’t have a say in his re-election. Many people in Utah will, and he’s catering to them.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/10 "2010-07-13T01:50:14Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#):
>
> Well, actually, he sorta does. A potential Justice’s judicial philosophy (or _potential_ judicial philosophy–to account for those who are not yet judges and the fact that a person’s judicial philosophy is subject to change and may be difficult to determine) is probably the most important thing that a congressperson should take into account when selecting a Justice.
I strongly disagree. Say Thurgood Marshall was alive again, and nominated. I disagree with his judicial philosophy, and many of his opinions…but I can’t in good conscience say the man isn’t qualified.
SCOTUS, or any appellant judge slot for that matter, ain’t that damn hard. You need to be able to read the briefs, write opinions, and conduct/review research. A third year law student could do it.
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### Author:  [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/11 "2010-07-13T01:50:45Z")
> [@samclem](#):
>
> Nope. I truly think he’s thinking ahead about his career.
> I and the other posters here won’t have a say in his re-election. Many people in Utah will, and he’s catering to them.
Ok . . .
So what’s “his fate”?
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### Author:  [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/12 "2010-07-13T01:53:12Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> I strongly disagree. Say Thurgood Marshall was alive again, and nominated. I disagree with his judicial philosophy, and many of his opinions…but I can’t in good conscience say the man isn’t qualified.
>
> SCOTUS, or any appellant judge slot for that matter, ain’t that damn hard. You need to be able to read the briefs, write opinions, and conduct/review research. A third year law student could do it.
Brother Oak, you seem to be talking about what a Senator should take into account when deciding whether or not to confirm a SCOTUS nominee, and I and Monty are talking about what they can take into account.
They absolutely can take potential judicial philosophy into account. And if you want to argue that they shouldn’t, then that’s fine with me. But when you suggest that they have some obligation not to take that into account, to look at only whether they have a pulse and a JD . . . I think that’s odd.
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/13 "2010-07-13T01:56:39Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#):
>
> Ok . . .
>
> So what’s “his fate”?
Whadda you think I am, a pundit or prognosticator? 🙂
I really don’t care whether he gets re-elected or not. I guess I would hate it if he gets beaten by a teaparty know nothing. I’d hate it if he get beaten by someone who is ultra conservative.
If he gets re-elected as his fate, then I’m fine with that. He deserves it, it that’s what his base decides. I hope they do.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/14 "2010-07-13T02:01:36Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#):
>
> When you say “supposed to”–where are you getting that from? What’s the obligation on a Senator not to look at a potential Justice’s potential judicial philosophy?
I’m pulling it out of my ass, frankly. But I’m basing it on what I believe the intent of the advice and consent clause in Article II, Section 2, which provides in pertinent part:
_He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments._
As I read it, there is no constitutional requirement that the Senate concur with a judicial appointment. They get to advise the President, but should not unreasonably withhold consent. A difference in judicial philosophy, where the philosophy in question is not demonstrably batshit insane, does not, in my view, constitute a valid reason to withhold consent.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/15 "2010-07-13T02:04:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#):
>
> They absolutely can take potential judicial philosophy into account. And if you want to argue that they shouldn’t, then that’s fine with me. But when you suggest that they have some obligation not to take that into account, to look at only whether they have a pulse and a JD . . . I think that’s odd.
My bad, then. Poor wording. I mean to be arguing what they should consider. I did not mean to imply that they are prohibited from considering what I consider irrelevant things.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/16 "2010-07-13T02:10:55Z")
Also may have been quick on the trigger in calling **Monty** an asshole. I don’t remember him normally being one.
To make it right, sometimes I’m an asshole, too.
We square, **Monty**?
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### Author:  [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/17 "2010-07-13T02:15:17Z")
> [@samclem](#):
>
> Whadda you think I am, a pundit or prognosticator? 🙂
>
> I really don’t care whether he gets re-elected or not. I guess I would hate it if he gets beaten by a teaparty know nothing. I’d hate it if he get beaten by someone who is ultra conservative.
>
> If he gets re-elected as his fate, then I’m fine with that. He deserves it, it that’s what his base decides. I hope they do.
Well . . . alrighty then. By saying “he deserves his fate,” you sure seemed to have decided that this decision of his would bode badly for him in the future. But now you say you don’t think that. Which means, I guess, that you are prone to talking straight out of your sphinc.
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### Author:  [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/18 "2010-07-13T02:16:13Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> To make it right, sometimes I’m an asshole, too.
>
> We square, **Monty**?
You’re a square asshole? What does your poop look like?
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### Author:  [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/19 "2010-07-13T02:24:46Z")
> [@Smeghead](#):
>
> You’re a square asshole? What does your poop look like?
> **[Stick of Butter](https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/stick-of-butter-gm91676677-1353802)**
>
> Stick of Butter
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orin-hatch-running-scared-of-the-tea-party/546480/20 "2010-07-13T02:27:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#):
>
> Well . . . alrighty then. By saying “he deserves his fate,” you sure seemed to have decided that this decision of his would bode badly for him in the future. But now you say you don’t think that. Which means, I guess, that you are prone to talking straight out of your sphinc.
No more than you. Sometimes a phrase is just a phrase.
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