# Orly Taitz resurfaces in New Hampshire **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 21, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633 "2011-11-21T13:11:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/382 "2012-01-06T16:02:52Z")
> [@KJR22](#): > > The fact is - Barack Obama is ineligible to serve as our POTUS, because he is not a natural born citizen. It would not matter if he were born on the 4th of July on the Capital Building steps, he is not considered natural born, because his father was NEVER a U.S. Citizen. That is not a fact, that is a legal theory. A rather eccentric, that is to say, cranky, that is to say, idiotic one. [There are many.](http://www.adl.org/mwd/suss1.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/383 "2012-01-06T17:28:41Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Legal nitpickery aside, there are two practical problems with this argument: > > 1. If true, it would disenfranchise vast numbers of Americans. Never mind Obama; anyone without two citizen parents would not be a citizen and neither would any of their descendants. This could affect (at a WAG) hundreds of thousands of people. How many elections historically would be nullified by the vast number of ineligible votes cast? > > 2. If on one hand you say that your relatively unique interpretation of the Constitution and case law is correct and on the other hand the vast, vast majority of judges, lawyers, politicians, civil servants, legal scholars and pretty much anyone having a say in the matter for the past 150 years disagrees with you, why would you expect all those people to suddenly throw away all agreed current and past legal practice in order to uphold your interpretation? Is your argument really that compelling? (Hint: no.) > > So we’re left with the proposal to destroy pretty much the entire US legal and electoral system to please a few whiny people who don’t like Obama. Yeah, that’s gonna happen. Another way of saying this is that there are currently two and only two types of citizenship: natural-born citizen and naturalized citizen. What the Birthers want to create is a third type of citizenship with no name. And they want the courts to create this, not the legislature. That’s one of more comical aspects of this farce, because that can’t be seen as anything other than Judicial Activism with capital letters. Yet the courts themselves have consistently turned down every chance to do so in the past, saying specifically that it was a matter for the legislature. Maybe this third type of citizenship should be called Cognitive Dissonance Citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/384 "2012-01-06T19:54:35Z")
> [@KJR22](#): > > I happen to know this person…she’s a dedicated PATRIOT . . . She hides it well. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/385 "2012-01-06T20:02:47Z")
> [@KJR22](#): > > The fact is - Barack Obama is ineligible to serve as our POTUS, because he is not a natural born citizen. That’s not a fact. It’s an assertion that you have no evidence to support. It’s a fact that Obama has presented more information about his birth than any other president. > [@](#): > > It would not matter if he were born on the 4th of July on the Capital Building steps, he is not considered natural born, because his father was NEVER a U.S. Citizen. Period! Does not follow. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/386 "2012-01-06T20:08:35Z")
never mind. ---
**Author:** ![KJR22](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@KJR22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KJR22)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/387 "2012-01-09T13:53:02Z")
Thanks to all of you who responded to my comments. If, as you all seem to think, our Constitution does not specify what natural born citizen means, or that it is not relevant for our POTUS, tell me, then, why members of Congress introduced no less that 8 Bills from 2003 to 2008 to amend our Constitution in regards to the Constitutional requirement of natural born citizen? Congress UNDERSTOOD that natural born is different than being “just” a citizen or a naturalized citizen, otherwise there would have been no reason to introduce resolutions to change it. Could it be that this was done knowing that Barack Obama had natural born citizenship issues? And please, don’t even try to tell me that Obama was not even a gleam in the DNC’s eye in 2003…we all know they had long been preparing for him to be their “savior”. In my opinion, which I hope you all will allow me to voice without “banning” me…that doesn’t seem to be working out so well. Obama has been disasterous for America! Google the following Bills introduced in 2003 to 2008 Congressional sessions: 108th. Congress 1st. Session, June 11, 2003 - H.J. Res. 59 108th. Congress 1st. Session, September 3, 2003 - H.J. Res. 67 108th. Congress 2nd. Session, February 25, 2004 - S. 2128 108th. Congress 2nd. Session, September 15, 2004 - H.J.S. Res. 104 109th. Congress 1st. Session, January 4, 2005 - H.J. Res. 2 109th. Congress 1st. Session, February 1, 2005 - H.J. Res. 15 109th. Congress 1st. Session, April 14, 2005 - H.J. Res. 42 110th. Congress 2nd. Session, February 28, 2008 - S. 2678 FORTUNATELY, none of these bills were adopted to amend out constitution regarding the Presidential natural born citizen requirements, and our Founders apparent intentions that no dual citizen should ever be POTUS remains intact! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/388 "2012-01-09T14:16:50Z")
…and Barack Obama is unquestionably a natural born citizen thanks to the 14th Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/389 "2012-01-09T14:17:17Z")
> [@](#): > > FORTUNATELY, none of these bills were adopted to amend out constitution regarding the Presidential natural born citizen requirements, and our Founders apparent intentions that no dual citizen should ever be POTUS remains intact! Prove that Obama holds dual citizenship. > [@](#): > > Obama has been disasterous for America! So start a thread in Great Debates and make your (highly debatable) claim there. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/390 "2012-01-09T14:45:28Z")
> [@KJR22](#): > > Thanks to all of you who responded to my comments. > If, as you all seem to think, our Constitution does not specify what natural born citizen means, or that it is not relevant for our POTUS, tell me, then, why members of Congress introduced no less that 8 Bills from 2003 to 2008 to amend our Constitution in regards to the Constitutional requirement of natural born citizen? Congress UNDERSTOOD that natural born is different than being “just” a citizen or a naturalized citizen, otherwise there would have been no reason to introduce resolutions to change it. Could it be that this was done knowing that Barack Obama had natural born citizenship issues? And please, don’t even try to tell me that Obama was not even a gleam in the DNC’s eye in 2003…we all know they had long been preparing for him to be their “savior”. In my opinion, which I hope you all will allow me to voice without “banning” me…that doesn’t seem to be working out so well. Obama has been disasterous for America! > > Google the following Bills introduced in 2003 to 2008 Congressional sessions: > > 108th. Congress 1st. Session, June 11, 2003 - H.J. Res. 59 > 108th. Congress 1st. Session, September 3, 2003 - H.J. Res. 67 > 108th. Congress 2nd. Session, February 25, 2004 - S. 2128 > 108th. Congress 2nd. Session, September 15, 2004 - H.J.S. Res. 104 > 109th. Congress 1st. Session, January 4, 2005 - H.J. Res. 2 > 109th. Congress 1st. Session, February 1, 2005 - H.J. Res. 15 > 109th. Congress 1st. Session, April 14, 2005 - H.J. Res. 42 > 110th. Congress 2nd. Session, February 28, 2008 - S. 2678 > > FORTUNATELY, none of these bills were adopted to amend out constitution regarding the Presidential natural born citizen requirements, and our Founders apparent intentions that no dual citizen should ever be POTUS remains intact! None of those said anything about dual citizenship. Furthermore, three of them were Republican-sponsored bills and one was bipartisan, which suggests that either your claim about them being about Obama is horseshit or Obama was so popular that even the Republicans wanted him to be President back when he was a state senator. And the last bill has to do with children born to military personnel overseas, which is entirely irrelevant. Honestly, do you just fling anything you can reach at your argument and hope that one day something will stick? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/391 "2012-01-09T14:46:30Z")
> [@KJR22](#): > > Google the following Bills introduced in 2003 to 2008 Congressional sessions: > > 108th. Congress 1st. Session, June 11, 2003 - H.J. Res. 59 > 108th. Congress 1st. Session, September 3, 2003 - H.J. Res. 67 > 108th. Congress 2nd. Session, February 25, 2004 - S. 2128 > 108th. Congress 2nd. Session, September 15, 2004 - H.J.S. Res. 104 > 109th. Congress 1st. Session, January 4, 2005 - H.J. Res. 2 > 109th. Congress 1st. Session, February 1, 2005 - H.J. Res. 15 > 109th. Congress 1st. Session, April 14, 2005 - H.J. Res. 42 > 110th. Congress 2nd. Session, February 28, 2008 - S. 2678 > > FORTUNATELY, none of these bills were adopted to amend out constitution regarding the Presidential natural born citizen requirements, and our Founders apparent intentions that no dual citizen should ever be POTUS remains intact! S. 2128 was introduced by Senator Don Nickles (R - OK). Three of the others were proposed by John Conyers, whose district has one of the highest proportions of first generations of immigrants and who is pretty well known for being “soft” on immigration in all possible senses. S. 2678 applies only to the children born overseas to American servicemen on active duty. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/392 "2012-01-09T14:57:50Z")
> [@KJR22](#): > > Thanks to all of you who responded to my comments. > If, as you all seem to think, our Constitution does not specify what natural born citizen means, or that it is not relevant for our POTUS, tell me, then, why members of Congress introduced no less that 8 Bills from 2003 to 2008 to amend our Constitution in regards to the Constitutional requirement of natural born citizen? For Ahnold. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/393 "2012-01-09T15:08:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > S. 2128 was introduced by Senator Don Nickles (R - OK). That guy’s a real hockey puck. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/394 "2012-01-09T15:15:03Z")
He can only be a “natural born citizen” if he were born vaginally. C-section babies need not apply. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/395 "2012-01-09T15:35:42Z")
> [@KJR22](#): > > And please, don’t even try to tell me that Obama was not even a gleam in the DNC’s eye in 2003…we all know they had long been preparing for him to be their “savior”. 😕 How do we know that? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/396 "2012-01-09T15:46:39Z")
> [@KJR22](#): > > And please, don’t even try to tell me that Obama was not even a gleam in the DNC’s eye in 2003…we all know they had long been preparing for him to be their “savior”. I’m tempted to ask you why they were doing that, but I’m sure answer would be ridiculous. In 2003 Obama was a state senator who was running for the U.S. Senate. His national experience constited of challenging a Congressional incumbent in 2000 and losing badly, which is not a way to make friends with the political establishment. He wasn’t the favorite in the Democratic primaries, either. If Blair Hull’s campaign hadn’t been derailed by scandals you might never have heard of Obama today. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/397 "2012-01-09T15:51:42Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > He can only be a “natural born citizen” if he were born vaginally. C-section babies need not apply. Awwwww… \ ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/398 "2012-01-09T16:55:29Z")
Those of you wondering about the “Admirality Court” thing should google up “Sovreign Citizen”. Be prepared for a whole bunch of delusional paranoia and moon-battery of the highest calibre. Speaking for himself, TRISTAN ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/399 "2012-01-09T16:58:21Z")
No no no, Obama’s Kryptonian. He’s admitted as much. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/400 "2012-01-09T17:02:01Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Those of you wondering about the “Admirality Court” thing should google up “Sovreign Citizen”. Pretty sneaky there. Everyone knows you need to spell it “Sovereign” or else you fall under Federal jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![KJR22](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@KJR22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KJR22)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633/401 "2012-01-09T20:07:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Cite? The Supreme Court has never interpreted the Constitution to mean that you must have to US Citizen parents to be a natural-born citizen. President Obama is the 7th US President with a foreign born parent: Hoover, Wilson, Arthur, Buchanan, Jackson, and Jefferson also had at least one foreign-born parent. Have you really never heard of the Grandfather Clause in Article II, Section 1? The Declaration of Independence made all colonists US citizens, but to maintain everlasting fidelity in the US, the Founders made sure that a foreigner would never be eligible for the presidency. They made it so the President/VP had to be a Natural Born Citizen, born to **two citizen parents**. Since a number of the Founders were NOT NBC’s, that issue had to be resolved, hence the grandfather clause which states: “or a citizen at the time of the adoption of this constitution,” The Grandfather Clause became obsolete, the day after the Constitution was adopted, except for those who were born before it was passed; in other words, they could still be only CITIZENS, yet be eligible to be President. Since obviously there is no one today who was alive at the signing, the grandfather clause has been rendered 100% obsolete, meaning that TODAY, you MUST be a NBC to be eligible for the presidency. 1.George WASHINGTON – covered by Article II Grandfather Clause (GFC) -was born on 22 Feb 1732 in VA. 2.John ADAMS – covered by Article II Grandfather Clause (GFC) -was born on 30 Oct 1735 in MA. 3.Thomas JEFFERSON – covered by Article II Grandfather Clause (GFC) -was born on 13 Apr 1743 in VA. 4.James MADISON – covered by Article II Grandfather Clause (GFC) -was born on 16 Mar 1751 in VA. 5.James MONROE – covered by Article II Grandfather Clause (GFC) -was born in 1758 in VA. 6.John Quincy ADAMS – covered by Article II Grandfather Clause (GFC)- was born in 1767 in MA. 7.Andrew JACKSON – covered by Article II Grandfather Clause (GFC) -was born in 1767 in Carolinas. 8.Martin VAN BUREN - Article II (NBC) both parents Citizens when he was born -was born in 1782 in NY. This was the first President qualified under the NBC clause. He was born in the USA to two Citizen parents. His parents were original Citizens who gained their citizenship by adhering to the Revolution in 1776. 9.William Henry HARRISON – covered by Article II Grandfather Clause (GFC) -was born in 1773 in VA These 9 Presidents were covered by the grandfather clause, all others except for Chester Arthur, were born to 2 citizen parents. In the case of Chester Arthur, it was not discovered until after his presidency…and was then unverifiable because Chester Arthur had apparently DESTROYED all of his birth documents. Does this make it a little more clear? If not, please read below. It is lengthy, but I hope you will take the time to read it, so you are properly informed. Thanks. _The Citizenship Status of Our 44 Presidents_ By: Mario Apuzzo, Esq. February 14, 2011 A famous Holmesian dictum provides that “a page of history is worth a volume of logic.” New York Trust Co. v. Eisner, 256 U.S. 345, 349 (1921) (Holmes, J.). There have been 43 Americans that have served as President (not including Barack Obama). Ten were born before 1787. Until Martin Van Buren (who was born in 1782 or six years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence) became President in 1837 (making him the 8th president), all the Presidents had been born before 1776 to parents who, undoubtedly, at the time considered themselves to be loyal subjects of one of the British Kings. The president following Van Buren, William H. Harrison (the 9th president), was also born before 1776 to parents who were British “natural born subjects.” All Presidents born before July 4, 1776, were born British “natural born subjects.” Those early presidents were naturalized to become “Citizens of the United States” through the Declaration of Independence and by adhering to the American Revolution. These presidents included Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Adams, Jackson, and Harrison. Article II, Section 1, Clause 5, allowing anyone who was a “Citizen of the United States” at the time of the adoption of the Constitution to be eligible to be President, grandfathered these presidents to be eligible. All presidents born after 1787, except for Chester Arthur and Barack Obama, met the “natural born Citizen” criteria, i.e., born on U.S. soil to a mother and father who were themselves U.S. citizens at the time of the President’s birth. Neither Arthur nor Obama were “natural born Citizens” at the time of birth. Arthur was born to an alien father who also made his U.S. citizen mother an alien. Obama was born to a non-U.S. citizen father who never became a U.S. citizen and, being here only on a temporary student visa, was never even an immigrant. There have been 46 Americans that have served as Vice-President (not including Mr. Biden). Ten were born before 1787. All Vice-Presidents born after 1787, except for Chester Arthur, met the “natural born Citizen” criteria. Fourteen Vice Presidents have gone on to be President. [[Shortened excerpt. [Rest can be seen here.](http://www.scribd.com/doc/48894388/The-Citizenship-Status-of-Our-44-Presidents)]] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orly-taitz-resurfaces-in-new-hampshire/603633.md?page=21)