# O'Rourke on gun confiscation, then and now (a.k.a. Francis' flip-flop) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 16, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333 "2019-09-16T19:10:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/81 "2019-09-17T17:50:02Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > My bold and italics. I see this type of response all the time, and I wish to God gun-control advocates would take note. They need to be completely knowledgeable about the terms they use, so legitimate questions like yours are nullified. And on that note, we need a term for a [gun](https://www.npr.org/2019/08/08/748665339/the-pistol-that-looks-like-a-rifle-the-dayton-shooters-gun) like the Dayton killer used, that allows one to kill 9 people and injure dozens more in 30 seconds. A term that is so suggestive of this type of firepower, that terms like automatic or semi-automatic, or whatever, become completely irrelevant. First of, let me state that I am a firearm owner and a 2A supporter, _AND_ I own at least one AR-pattern rifle (that has not been used against any living thing whatsoever, and I hope I never have to), my reasons _for_ owning it are not relevant to this thread. That said, the AR “Pistol” in the linked article above, I can understand why people would want to ban it, I can say as an AR owner, that _I_ do not see any functional reason to own one, other than “it’s a cool range toy”, it doesn’t really have any true “sporting purpose”, and there are far better defensive firearm choices, (ironically, one of which is the AR _RIFLE_) The AR “Pistol” only seems to exist because it can be built that way, i see no difference between a AR-P and a sawed off pistol grip shotgun, legally, the ARP should be classified as either a “Destructive Device”, “Short Barrel Rifle” or “AOW” (Any Other Weapon", and i’d have no problem with the ARP being moved to the Class 3 list of firearms, along with fully automatic rifles, sawed off shotguns, destructive devices, which require being fingerprinted, federal background checks, and a $200 tax stamp there’s no reason an AR platform rifle needs to be concealable, it serves no sporting purpose, and there are better defensive weapons. in the spirit of compromise, i say move the ARP to Class 3, and stop going after the AR rifles, which are rarely used in crimes and actually have a legitimate defensive/sporting use. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/82 "2019-09-17T17:51:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [Mass shootings can be contagious, research shows : Shots - Health News : NPR](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/08/06/748767807/mass-shootings-can-be-contagious-research-shows) > > [The Media Is an Accomplice in School Shootings | Psychology Today](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/crucial-conversations/201204/the-media-is-accomplice-in-school-shootings?fbclid=IwAR3mGMFLyVaQIqRHHMTUdJ-mmFXmPMP0elXGyZKr4gl68rJRTObuojybVyc) > \*The second dose came as I held my breath, hoping and praying the media wouldn’t amplify the violence. > > But they did. > > They did exactly what was needed to influence the next perpetrator to lock and load. > > 1. > > ``` > They named the shooter. > > ``` > > 2. > > ``` > They described his characteristics. > > ``` > > 3. > > ``` > They detailed the crime. > > ``` > > 4. > > ``` > They numbered the victims. > > ``` > > 5. > > ``` > They ranked him against other “successful” attackers. > > ``` > > School shootings are a contagion. And the media are consistent accomplices in most every one of them. > > There’s really no useful debate on the point. The consensus of social scientists since David Phillips’ groundbreaking work in 1974 is that highly publicized stories of deviant and dangerous behavior influences copycat incidents. \* > > [https://www.elon.edu/u/academics/communications/journal/wp-content/uploads/sites/153/2018/12/03-Lee.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3nyYZ8pS4pNOXS1OKyFnf\_44\_abrmB19KaOPkhRNt-pHzwQqHI2r9fjYM](https://www.elon.edu/u/academics/communications/journal/wp-content/uploads/sites/153/2018/12/03-Lee.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3nyYZ8pS4pNOXS1OKyFnf_44_abrmB19KaOPkhRNt-pHzwQqHI2r9fjYM) > \*This study suggests that there is a pattern > between the spread of mass shooting news on social media platforms and the increase in these crimes. Over > time, as social media has increased in usage, so has the coverage of news concerning mass shootings. This > also further reflects shooters’ desire for fame and their tendency to copy a crime. > Evidence from this study reveals a large increase in the number of mass shootings after 2011’s social > media milestones, and one can conclude that social media most likely has some effect on these crimes, > although the degree of this relationship is beyond the scope of this study. \* > > [http://www.center4research.org/copy-cats-kill/?fbclid=IwAR0hBB80gcia9yoA7vqR4l4VM9oIiInLbUtRuAEuC3-k7M3lsW1yXPMrEQ8](http://www.center4research.org/copy-cats-kill/?fbclid=IwAR0hBB80gcia9yoA7vqR4l4VM9oIiInLbUtRuAEuC3-k7M3lsW1yXPMrEQ8) > \*Shooters get enormous attention: their name, photo, motivations, and story are often shared for days following the event. The American Psychological Association points out that this “fame” is something that most mass shooters desire.[2] This sometime inspires a copycat shooting, where the potential shooter typically tries to kill more people than their predecessor. > > The number of mass shootings in the U.S. has increased exponentially since the early 2000s\* > > Its’ that “200 year old ink” that allows the media to get away with causing these shootings and allows you to post here. And here’s another club in the Reactionary Gun-Fetishist’s Bag: When all else fails, Blame the Media for the ills of the country. None of the above constitutes “glorifying” the shooters in any sane person’s lexicon, BTW. > [@DrDeth](#): > > :rolleyes: > > I know, science and facts often get in the way of emotions. > > Too bad. Let us know when you come up with science and facts. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/83 "2019-09-17T17:53:10Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > What would you call that weapon then? Just as a broad term? “Assault weapon” is a poor term, but it has been used in several laws. So, it works. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/84 "2019-09-17T17:54:49Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > . > > Let us know when you come up with science and facts. I just did. And to reiterate: \*There’s really no useful debate on the point. The consensus of social scientists since David Phillips’ groundbreaking work in 1974 is that highly publicized stories of deviant and dangerous behavior influences copycat incidents. \* I suppose you also ignore scientists global warming, despite their consensus? And NPR? Reactionary? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/85 "2019-09-17T17:56:34Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > What would you call that weapon then? Just as a broad term? It’s an AR Pistol. We can even have them in CA, but here they would be required to be single shot only. Mactech gave solid explanation of why and what it is. I personally find them pretty dumb, but they rose in popularity due to other stupid rules. I’d rather have an SBR. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/86 "2019-09-17T17:58:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I just did. No, you didn’t. > [@](#): > > And NPR? Reactionary? NPR, no. _You,_ possibly. And NPR, again, never claimed the media was “glorifying” the shooters. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/87 "2019-09-17T18:12:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > :rolleyes: > > I know, science and facts often get in the way of emotions. > > Too bad. It was “science and fact” that violent video games cause violence IRL. That has been largely discredited. Give it a bit of time and you’ll find your favored hypothesis will be discredited as well. (There is a disclaimer in what you quoted that says the extent to which media contributes was not included in the scope of the study.) It’s not that I entirely disagree with you that media has no role to play in these events. Clearly copycat behavior among individuals inclined to commit these types of acts is a thing. However, the extent to which it motivates and amplifies this effect has not been effectively studied, much less concluded. Lack of sufficient and conclusive evidence, however, does not appear to deter you from drawing your conclusion. So consider the possibility you’re in no position to lecture anyone about “science and facts”. There is plenty wrong with the 24/7 news cycle. The sensationalism of news “BREAKING” every minute of the day is hard to take seriously anymore and I wish it would stop. The fact that news stations feel the need to fill hours and days with repeated coverage ad-nauseam is frankly annoying as fuck and serves no-one but the advertisers and the media companies. That said, mass shootings are a problem in society and should not be downplayed because they are inconvenient PR to otherwise upstanding gun rights supporters. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/88 "2019-09-17T18:19:32Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s an AR Pistol. We can even have them in CA, but here they would be required to be single shot only. > > Mactech gave solid explanation of why and what it is. I personally find them pretty dumb, but they rose in popularity due to other stupid rules. I’d rather have an SBR. Yeah, the ARP makes no sense to me either, and I like the AR platform… Hmm, lets take a perfectly functional AR and… Put a shorter upper receiver/barrel assembly on it (make it even Louder and less accurate, and produce a bigger muzzle flash) take off the butt stock and put on a “wrist brace” (that can be used almost like a butt stock) (lets remove functionality and accuracy, and look for a way to illegally skirt the rules against Short Barreled Rifles, after all, an AR with normal buttstock and “pistol” upper is legally a Clas 3 Short Barreled Rifle) Add on a 100 round drum, further shifting the weight farther forward (necessitating the “wrist brace”), and requiring the need to use the front grip on the gun (like with a rifle) And now we can “conceal” it………under a trenchcoat, which _certainly_ won’t look suspicious… :smack: I have no problems with 100 round drums, and i’d love to own one myself, lots of fun at the range, but unless you’re fighting off the inevitable Zombie Uprising (which _Will_ eventually happen 😉 ) or engaging in a long target shooting/competition setting, i can see no real _functional_ use for one (once again, cool range toy) ARP’s make no logical sense (and this is from an AR owner.) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/89 "2019-09-17T18:30:54Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > … take off the butt stock and put on a “wrist brace” (that can be used almost like a butt stock) (lets remove functionality and accuracy, and look for a way to illegally skirt the rules against Short Barreled Rifles… I don’t have issues with most of what you said, but a wrist brace on an AR pistol is a way to _legally_ “skirt the rules” (if that’s how you want to characterize it) against SBRs, not “illegally”. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/90 "2019-09-17T18:36:13Z")
Gun confiscation will never happen, of course. The NRA is too well funded by Russian resources and protected by the right wing cowards who are getting a nice paycheck from them. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/91 "2019-09-17T18:37:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t have issues with most of what you said, but a wrist brace on an AR pistol is a way to _legally_ “skirt the rules” (if that’s how you want to characterize it) against SBRs, not “illegally”. Goodpoint, i mistyped, i meant legally, not sure why i typed illegally you’re correct on this one ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/92 "2019-09-17T18:41:08Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s an AR Pistol. We can even have them in CA, but here they would be required to be single shot only. > > Mactech gave solid explanation of why and what it is. I personally find them pretty dumb, but they rose in popularity due to other stupid rules. I’d rather have an SBR. I disagree with Mactech’s assessment of the utility of the AR-pistol. SBRs are extremely useful. The standard military small arm in the US Army is the M4 carbine, which has a 14.5 inch barrel, and that makes it an SBR. They seem to think a short weapon is useful. I’d love a 10.5-12 ish inch SBR with a can: light, low noise, far more accurate than a handgun, easy to move in a confined space like a vehicle or dwelling, and no meaningful loss of effectiveness at typical defense ranges (\<50m). With the right brace, what’s the meaningful difference between an AR pistol and an SBR? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/93 "2019-09-17T18:48:12Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > NPR, no. _You,_ possibly. And NPR, again, never claimed the media was “glorifying” the shooters. There are several people saying that the name and information about the shooter should be with held to not encourage others. I think people who go out and murder a building full of people are crazy. Perhaps before scary looking semi-auto rifles, they were arsonists. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/94 "2019-09-17T18:49:11Z")
I don’t blame O’Rourke for changing his mind or at least changing what he says. Deaths of innocent children at the hands of madmen and perhaps a few madwomen is something that is going to stir a lot of emotions. It’s not problematic imo for people to debate and reconsider ideas that may save lives. Maybe it’s impossible to do anything to prevent crime and terrorism but it doesn’t hurt to try. Do I think confiscating rifles is the way to go? Not really. But I think it’s messed up that my kids have to waste some of their time in school on active shooter drills. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/95 "2019-09-17T19:03:43Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > With the right brace, what’s the meaningful difference between an AR pistol and an SBR? The shoulder stock. A pistol brace could work, but I’d think that would be questionable legally by a creative DA. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/96 "2019-09-17T20:03:57Z")
> **[Analysis | Is Beto O’Rourke’s mandatory buyback program actually all that...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/13/is-beto-orourkes-mandatory-buyback-program-actually-all-that-politically-problematic/)** > > A look at recent polling. > [@](#): > > In short order, a bit of political conventional wisdom formed: O’Rourke had damaged his own chances of being elected president by staking out a position so distant from the center. What’s more, he had probably harmed the eventual Democratic nominee for president in 2020 (at this point, probably not O’Rourke) by giving President Trump and his allies the ability to claim that Democrats intend to take guns away from the public.[…] > > There’s majority support in both polls for legislation that would ban the sale of assault weapons. In our poll, 56 percent of Americans back that idea, about the same as in the NPR poll. That includes at least a third of Republicans and 4 in 10 gun owners or people who live in a household with a gun.[…] > > Both The Post-ABC poll and the one from NPR asked specifically about a proposal like O’Rourke’s. In both polls, views were split. Our poll had a slim majority supporting a mandatory buyback; NPR’s was evenly divided. > > Again, though, note that there’s more support from Republicans and gun owners than you might expect. In The Post’s poll, 31 percent of Republicans and 37 percent of people who live in households that have guns support a buyback program. In the NPR survey, 20 percent of Trump voters backed O’Rourke’s proposal. That’s about the same figure as the percentage of Democrats who oppose the idea.[…] This is much less toxic than proposing to ban private health insurance the way Warren and Sanders do. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/97 "2019-09-17T20:05:35Z")
Bump stocks, telescoping stocks, thumbhole stocks, brace “stocks” - I don’t think the liberals hate guns nearly as much as they appear to hate the various permutations of stocks that have been banned over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/98 "2019-09-17T20:13:17Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yeah, they’re paranoid about losing their guns. We’re paranoid about people losing their _lives_. Yeah good one liner, you’re here all week right? But seriously, my point is not that gun control people can get sanctimonious like you just did. Everyone knows that. 🙂 My point is that it’s ridiculous when they claim it’s just a paranoid fantasy that they want to confiscate (at least some, not necessarily all) guns. Because just preventing new sale is a half measure. Or less. I believe a new sale ban on semi auto rifles\* would have such a small effect on mass shooting it would, like the historical debate about the 1990’s law, be a matter of torturing statistics till they confessed it had any effect (though could have a small effect, I don’t know that it wouldn’t). Actually, ceteris paribus for all the other social sickness which cause these things, I think you’d not only have to ban semi-auto rifles but also pistols, or at least enforce small magazine limits, and on a ‘mandatory buy back’ (ie confiscation) basis. Since pistols wouldn’t kill a lot fewer people in most of those situations, assuming big magazines, and especially if the attacker has more than one. So of course you’d have to confiscate a lot of guns to really cut down that problem from ‘hardware’ side. And so it’s ridiculous to claim that isn’t the aim, but Beto was making that standard claim till pretty recently and many Democrats still do. That’s really my only point. I personally don’t think this problem is very solvable\*\* and I don’t get that worked up about it either way, which I know is true of some other people who participate in these discussions but most are pretty worked up one way or the other, and are always looking to read any point made that doesn’t follow their catechism fairly exactly as being ‘the other’. 🙂 \*assuming the political bumper stick term ‘assault weapon’ was broadly defined as the actually relevant weapons, box magazine semi-auto rifles, not laws full of silly loopholes where a weapon with wooden furniture and no flash hider (eg. Ruger Mini 14 or such) was not an ‘assault weapon’ but an AR15 or such was, even though basically the same thing functionally. \*\*I really do think social contagion is a big part of it now and will probably die down at some point, like years ago when there were also plenty of guns including ‘assault weapons’ but not this problem to same degree. It’s not some ‘excuse’, I just think that’s probably a good deal of what it is. Whereas confiscating lots of guns nationally is not gonna happen, and half-half-measures like banning new sale of just a narrow range of guns, though no skin off my own nose, and which very well might not happen either, is not going to do much practically. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/99 "2019-09-17T20:17:45Z")
I am going to go contrarian and suggest flip-flops are actually good. A politician should flip-flop if their constituency changes. I have no use for a politician who governs according to their principles. Their principles should be whatever I (the voter) dictate to them. My choice would have been for Beto to run for Senate instead of cluttering the presidential field with a stupid and quixotic bid, so I am content to see him flounder in shame and failure. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333/100 "2019-09-17T20:43:37Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > … so I am content to see him flounder in shame and failure. There, see, we can agree on some things 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orourke-on-gun-confiscation-then-and-now-a-k-a-francis-flip-flop/840333.md?page=6)