# Orthodox Jewish burials vs U.S. Law **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 14, 2001, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439 "2001-07-14T00:43:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/1 "2001-07-14T00:43:43Z")
My grandma just died, and I’m finding myself focusing on weird little details, (which isn’t untypical for me). Anyway, since she lived in Germany but wants to be buried here, she’s gotta be flown over in a hermetically sealed casket (which’ll be made of zinc). Also, given the insane amounts of paperwork the German (and maybe U.S. goverment) is requiring (they need her marriage and divorce papers from 50 years ago?!), her body is going to _have_ to be preserved with formaldahyde or whatever they use. If I remember my Hebrew School classes (and after all these years, I may not) this is a couple of major Jewish no-nos rolled into one. The casket _must_ be unadorned wood (no fancy carvings, fancy woods, etc: plain pine box only), no…um…preservatives (formaldahyde, etc) and so forth) in the body and so forth. Our Rabbi’s One Of The Good One, so he’ll probably just say “Th’ heck with it. You didn’t violate Jewish law for fun, you were just complying with U.S. (and German?) law.”, but…what would happen if we were more Orthodox? I can’t imagine a Rabbi refuse to bury and say the Kaddish for her? Can a body be…unpreserved? What would happen under these circumstances? I hope this doesn’t sound as weirdly clinical as I think it does. It’s just a coping mechanism for me. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Grok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Grok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grok)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/2 "2001-07-14T00:53:40Z")
According to Joshua Hammer’s excellent book _Chosen By God: A Brother’s Journey_, your recolection is correct. According to Jewish law it’s supposed to be a plain box, and no embalming. The body is supposed to just be wrapped in a sheet. In the book the author’s grandmother dies, and his Orthodox brother becomes nearly apoplectic when told her body would be embalmed. ---
**Author:** ![RoboDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@RoboDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoboDude)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/3 "2001-07-14T00:59:56Z")
How plain is “plain”? If you could get a casket that complied with the government’s regulations, but had no adornments of any kind, would that be acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/4 "2001-07-14T01:22:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RoboDude \* > \*\*How plain is “plain”? If you could get a casket that complied with the government’s regulations, but had no adornments of any kind, would that be acceptable? \*\* I don’t think so. Goverment regs require a hermetically sealed box (which obviously won’t decompose), but the point of the Jewish law is that a plain pine box (or just a sheet) is that the body’ll decompose as quickly as possible. I don’t think they can be reconciled Fenris ---
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/5 "2001-07-14T01:26:16Z")
Also, according to Jewish law, the body has to be buried within 24 hours of death. ;j ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/6 "2001-07-14T02:19:26Z")
I always thought within 3 days was acceptable. Will she be accompanied by a shomer? Okay. It’s sundown now on a Friday. A really good response is probably 24 hours away. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/7 "2001-07-14T02:40:27Z")
And Fenris, my sincere condolences. ---
**Author:** ![Mercutio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Mercutio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mercutio)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/8 "2001-07-14T02:58:55Z")
Do you think it would be possible to have her in a plain pine box, _inside_\* of the zinc one? Would that appease both sides? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/9 "2001-07-14T04:53:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mercutio \* > \*\*Do you think it would be possible to have her in a plain pine box, _inside_ of the zinc one? Would that appease both sides? \*\* No(as far as I understand…which isn’t as much as I should. We’re pretty much Reform Jews). The wooden box needs to rot quickly. No preservation whatsoever. Putting metal around it still keeps the box and the body from decaying quickly. (I guiltily admit to being fuzzy on _why_ this is done) And **Doug** : Even 3 days ain’t gonna happen. It’s gonna take at **least** a week and a half to get the body over here. And thanks for the condolences. Fenris (Who’s feeling strangely numb) ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/10 "2001-07-14T04:56:58Z")
Listen hon, I can ask my brother in law again, but I’d gotten the impression that the zinc container was for the shipping purposes. Wouldn’t it be possible to um, transfer her to a different container once she’s cleared customs? Want I should ask??? (I"m at SO’s shop on his computer, so not at my email addy presently btw) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/11 "2001-07-14T13:56:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*Listen hon, I can ask my brother in law again, but I’d gotten the impression that the zinc container was for the shipping purposes. Wouldn’t it be possible to um, transfer her to a different container once she’s cleared customs? Want I should ask??? (I"m at SO’s shop on his computer, so not at my email addy presently btw) \*\* Ew. Yuk. The “transfer” possiblity hadn’t even occurred to me. Yeah. Could you ask? But assuming it’s not allowed by U.S. Law, I’m still interested in hearing how more Orthodox Jews would handle the conflict between US law and Biblical law. (She’s still going to be…preserved, for instance) Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Brite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Brite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brite)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/12 "2001-07-14T14:32:33Z")
From what I can remember from my days in loading small cargo aircraft, bodies shipped internationally have to be in metal, sealed containers – or liners – for transport for the safety of the crew and passengers. Many a 747 full of people has a coffin in the cargo bay, or even several. They ship them in cardboard boxes – even occupied. Plus it is for the safety of the cargo, which eventually will be handled by various people, because there might be ‘leaks’. Um, you might want to check and see how they prepared the body for air transport. There is a process they perform for bodies being flown anywhere that is not done with bodies either being locally interred or moved by ground. It has to do with low pressure and, though I’m not Jewish, it might cause some problems. It has, from what my dim memory can dredge up, caused some problems among Jews in the past. Anyhow, after being cleared through customs and, in almost all cases, being examined (drug runners used to pack bodies coming into the US with drugs, until someone caught on), it is cleared to be recovered by your local funeral home. They will obtain the body for you. In almost all instances, they will remove the body from the liner, perform whatever cosmetic details are necessary and place it in the coffin of your choice. Embalming fluid might have to be used to keep the body from arriving in a state of advanced decay, depending on how long it takes to get to you after death. In old days, they used to sit with the unembalmed body for 3 days, and by then they really had to get it in the ground. Since she was Jewish, they might just – and I’m sorry if this bothers you – flush the body with water and use a highly diluted embalming solution to delay decay for several days, but which will allow the desired process to happen much more rapidly than with a gentile burial. I am not sure if they would do a dry ice pack, because dry ice has to vent and is considered a hazardous material in aircraft. There is a potential for packing the loved one in freezing jell packs, but I think the cost would be quite high. Either way, so many Jews, upon death, want to be buried in Israel or various other lands, that by now, special handling for them should be pretty standard. Special handling is even required for the couple of pounds of human ashes left over after a cremation and by then, everything is sterile and would not affect the crew or passengers if the container broke. Condolences for your loss. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/13 "2001-07-14T15:01:44Z")
Do you want me to ask my father about burial laws and such? ---
**Author:** ![GulDan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/22d042/32.png) [@GulDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulDan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/14 "2001-07-14T16:17:04Z")
Let me address the two questions individually: 1. Zinc box vs. pine coffin 2. Preservation ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2001, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/15 "2001-07-14T16:38:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*Ew. Yuk. The “transfer” possiblity hadn’t even occurred to me. Yeah. Could you ask? \*\* it appears that others have answered that ‘yes’ that can occcur. There’s **got** to be a way. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2001, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-jewish-burials-vs-u-s-law/72439/16 "2001-07-15T02:12:49Z")
**Fenris** , First of all, my condolences on the loss of your grandmother. Secondly, the coffin used for transport doesn’t have to be the one used for burial, does it? If you want a _halachic_ answer, the best thing would be for her to be buried in Germany. If that is impossible, burial can be delayed (for a short while anyway) to bring her here; especially if it will be for her honor (i.e. she has a lot more family/friends here; important guests will arrive for the funeral, etc.). As to the actual preservation of the body, I’m afraid I can’t help you. You would have to speak to a Rabbi on that matter. However, I can say that even if preserving her is a violation of Jewish law, she can still be mourned and people can still say _kaddish_ for her regardless. Zev Steinhardt