# Orthodox Shitheads Defy Law In Order To Endanger Children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606 "2012-09-04T02:35:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/181 "2012-09-05T21:36:17Z")
The problem with your analogy is that we have a record of those using Obama’s middle name also calling him a Muslim or making other disparaging remarks related to it. You don’t have such a record here. And yes, being unmistakably clear that the objection is to the fact that these grown men are sucking babies’ dicks is the best choice. That is, whatever their rationale, a disgusting, vile practice that should be destroyed. It shouldn’t be allowed to hide in the shadows of polite phrasing and unwavering deference to religion. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/182 "2012-09-05T21:57:06Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > The problem with your analogy is that we have a record of those using Obama’s middle name also calling him a Muslim or making other disparaging remarks related to it. You don’t have such a record here. > > And yes, being unmistakably clear that the objection is to the fact that these grown men are sucking babies’ dicks is the best choice. That is, whatever their rationale, a disgusting, vile practice that should be destroyed. It shouldn’t be allowed to hide in the shadows of polite phrasing and unwavering deference to religion. It seems to me that your first paragraph denies that those who use this construction have a record of disparaging remarks. And then your second paragraph makes disparaging remarks. Just so I understand the extent of your objection, would you also object to the suction being provided by mouth, but with a sterile glass tube between the mouth and the wound? ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/183 "2012-09-05T22:11:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems to me that your first paragraph denies that those who use this construction have a record of disparaging remarks. It denies that there is a record of remarks indicating that these men are pedophiles – as that was your initial accusation. Again, it comes down to context. Something you seem to repeatedly ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/184 "2012-09-05T22:16:26Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > It denies that there is a record of remarks indicating that these men are pedophiles – as that was your initial accusation. Again, it comes down to context. Something you seem to repeatedly ignore. I listed a whole series of remarks – from you, and others – that evoked the specter of pedophilia. What is the context that neutralizes these? And again: Just so I understand the extent of your objection, would you also object to the suction being provided by mouth, but with a sterile glass tube between the mouth and the wound? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/185 "2012-09-05T22:20:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. But is that the best choice of ways to describe it? Yes. The BHO rhetoric is designed to emphasize supposed Otherness and allude to Muslim and/or foreign influences. The fact that some ultra-Orthodox fanatics perform a religious ritual which includes placing their mouth on a baby’s penis is not an untoward implication, it’s part and parcel of the actual situation. People aren’t objecting to circumcision as such, they’re objecting to a splinter-sect’s practice of circumcision which involves oral-genital contact. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/186 "2012-09-05T22:35:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I listed a whole series of remarks – from you, and others – that evoked the specter of pedophilia. What is the context that neutralizes these? No, you produced a series of quotes that you try to link to claims of pedophilia. No such claims were made by anyone. The only people in this thread who have brought up pedophilia are those defending the dick sucking. That’s the problem here. You are trying to deride and condemn those you disagree with by making baseless accusations. Just because someone finds an action to be vile and disgusting does not mean they are slapping on some additional label to the behavior. The act of sucking on an infant’s dick for no reason other than because some old book says it’s a good thing is vile and disgusting. That is enough to justify calling out that action in the bluntest, most direct terms possible. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/187 "2012-09-05T22:41:35Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > First they came for the small proportion of Rabbis who support _metzitzah b’peh_, and I didn’t speak up, because I found the practice distasteful. Then they came for… It would be _wonderful_ if you’d stop accusing me of wanting to commit crimes against humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/188 "2012-09-05T22:46:45Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yes. > The BHO rhetoric is designed to emphasize supposed Otherness and allude to Muslim and/or foreign influences. The fact that some ultra-Orthodox fanatics perform a religious ritual which includes placing their mouth on a baby’s penis is not an untoward implication, it’s part and parcel of the actual situation. People aren’t objecting to circumcision as such, they’re objecting to a splinter-sect’s practice of circumcision which involves oral-genital contact. I think you’re right: that’s what they object to. But it seems to me they object to it for the reason that it evokes images of pedophilia. And that is manifestly untrue. Do you agree? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/189 "2012-09-05T23:00:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But it seems to me they object to it for the reason that it evokes images of pedophilia. > > And that is manifestly untrue. > > Do you agree? Untrue that it evokes images of pedophilia? Not at all, that’s a perfectly reasonable image to evoke. That it _is_ pedophilia? No, probably in most cases it probably isn’t. But that’s not really relevant. It’s perfectly fine to say that ultra-Orthodox folks shouldn’t be sucking on the penis of any baby, for ritual purposes or otherwise, and that’s neither sensationalistic nor unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/190 "2012-09-05T23:06:06Z")
Hey **Bricker** , I noticed you didn’t mention the part where I claimed to be anti-semite. How strange. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/191 "2012-09-05T23:26:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Hey **Bricker** , I noticed you didn’t mention the part where I claimed to be anti-semite. How strange. Not really. You’re easily forgettable. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/192 "2012-09-05T23:27:29Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Untrue that it evokes images of pedophilia? Not at all, that’s a perfectly reasonable image to evoke. That it _is_ pedophilia? No, probably in most cases it probably isn’t. But that’s not really relevant. It’s perfectly fine to say that ultra-Orthodox folks shouldn’t be sucking on the penis of any baby, for ritual purposes or otherwise, and that’s neither sensationalistic nor unfair. What’s your position on the use of a sterile glass tube? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/193 "2012-09-05T23:46:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What’s your position on the use of a sterile glass tube? Sounds like a workable compromise. If it prevents transmission of viruses and other pathogens, why not? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/194 "2012-09-05T23:47:46Z")
If you’re into cutting infant boy penis, I don’t see how sucking penis blood somehow takes it “over the top.” Anyway, I’ve read [hospitals can be pretty dangerous](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-33816_162-57468081/consumer-reports-ranks-most-dangerous-safest-hospitals/). Maybe the do-it-at-some-old-dude’s-place practice is safer after all, if you’re going to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/195 "2012-09-05T23:52:26Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Untrue that it evokes images of pedophilia? Not at all, that’s a perfectly reasonable image to evoke. That it _is_ pedophilia? No, probably in most cases it probably isn’t. But that’s not really relevant. It’s perfectly fine to say that ultra-Orthodox folks shouldn’t be sucking on the penis of any baby, for ritual purposes or otherwise, and that’s neither sensationalistic nor unfair. If you say “sucking penis” to 100 people, how many of them will imagine something sexual, and how many will imagine something medical–say, sucking out snake venom? ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/196 "2012-09-05T23:55:18Z")
Cmkeller: Thank you for the explanation. I still don’t know if I would circumcise my son but I have learned something today from you. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/197 "2012-09-06T00:06:04Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Sounds like a workable compromise. If it prevents transmission of viruses and other pathogens, why not? But there’s still the suction, created by a grown man’s mouth, inches away from the penis of an infant boy. If I understand the others’ objections correctly, they are not solely a matter of pathogens. Or am I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/198 "2012-09-06T00:17:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Or am I mistaken? You ask this as if it was (a) a question and (b) something out of the ordinary. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/199 "2012-09-06T00:45:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But there’s still the suction, created by a grown man’s mouth, inches away from the penis of an infant boy. If I understand the others’ objections correctly, they are not solely a matter of pathogens. > > Or am I mistaken? Sure; aesthetically, it’s really stupid. It’s a grotesquery. It’s as absurd as most religious metaphors. Eating Christ’s flesh and drinking Christ’s blood, etc. So what? Let 'em have their metaphor. I am free to deride it, and everybody’s happy. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/200 "2012-09-06T01:05:30Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Sure; aesthetically, it’s really stupid. It’s a grotesquery. It’s as absurd as most religious metaphors. Eating Christ’s flesh and drinking Christ’s blood, etc. So what? Let 'em have their metaphor. I am free to deride it, and everybody’s happy. That’s your view, but as I suggested above, I don’t know if the other major players in this thread agree. In particular, I can’t decipher this message: > [@akennett](#): > > You ask this as if it was (a) a question and (b) something out of the ordinary. Does he agree with the sterile glass tube compromise, or not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606.md?page=11)