# Orthodox Shitheads Defy Law In Order To Endanger Children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606 "2012-09-04T02:35:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/201 "2012-09-06T01:07:44Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > No, you produced a series of quotes that you try to link to claims of pedophilia. No such claims were made by anyone. The only people in this thread who have brought up pedophilia are those defending the dick sucking. That’s the problem here. You are trying to deride and condemn those you disagree with by making baseless accusations. > > Just because someone finds an action to be vile and disgusting does not mean they are slapping on some additional label to the behavior. The act of sucking on an infant’s dick for no reason other than because some old book says it’s a good thing is vile and disgusting. That is enough to justify calling out that action in the bluntest, most direct terms possible. Even if all this were true, can you justify calling it “kissing” as the OP does? That is a word that also evokes pedophilia, and act is not a kiss, not even purely factually. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/202 "2012-09-06T01:13:32Z")
And yet again, Bricker shifts the goalposts. Really, it’s okay to admit that you’re wrong and that you’ve been acting like an asshole this entire thread. There’s no shame. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/203 "2012-09-06T01:24:31Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > If you say “sucking penis” to 100 people, how many of them will imagine something sexual Whether or not someone will imagine something sexual does not change the fact that we’re discussing grown men sucking on baby penis because way-past-antiquated rituals tell them to. “Oh, I was sucking on his penis in a non-sexual manner!” does not, I think, matter an iota of a damn. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/204 "2012-09-06T01:53:47Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Whether or not someone will imagine something sexual does not change the fact that we’re discussing grown men sucking on baby penis because way-past-antiquated rituals tell them to. > > “Oh, I was sucking on his penis in a non-sexual manner!” does not, I think, matter an iota of a damn. But you could say, “putting oral suction on a circumcision to stop the bleeding.” You don’t. You say, “sucking on baby penis.” Now, I’ll admit, the way I phrased it was wordy. But I don’t think your concern is conciseness. I think you’re intentionally using the precise words “sucking on baby penis,” because it suits you perfectly fine to phrase things in a way that viscerally evokes the worst abuses of organized religion and the worst fears of caring parents–even though those particular fears are completely unfounded in this particular case. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/205 "2012-09-06T01:57:40Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > And yet again, Bricker shifts the goalposts. Really, it’s okay to admit that you’re wrong and that you’ve been acting like an asshole this entire thread. There’s no shame. Here is my first post in this thread, with precisely the same goalposts: > [@Bricker](#): > > I object to the OP’s presentment of the issue. > > There is absolutely a valid argument to be made for the law, and indeed for banning the practice. But no one – so far as I’m aware — seriously contends the opposition arises because of a need on the part of mohels to “keep sucking baby dicks,” a phrasing that darkly hints at motives starkly different from those that actually motivate the mohels in question. You may rage at their adherence to superstition over medical science if you wish; you pollute the discussion by salacious phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/206 "2012-09-06T02:05:45Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > But you could say, “putting oral suction on a circumcision to stop the bleeding.” > > You don’t. > > You say, “sucking on baby penis.” Your argument boils down to semantic equivocation. And I doubt it’d fool anybody. The act is objectionable whatever you call it. Call it “Ordering a pizza with extra cheese” if you really want. It’s still a man sucking a baby’s penis as part of a religious ritual. I’m not sure what’s so difficult about this concept. Perform the circumcision. Engage in whatever bits of pomp and circumstance you’d care to. Keep the infant’s penis out of your mouth. I don’t really see how this is confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/207 "2012-09-06T02:07:16Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I don’t really see how this is confusing. You don’t see how using sexually charged language to describe an issue that’s really about hygiene and medicine might be confusing? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/208 "2012-09-06T02:14:50Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Your argument boils down to semantic equivocation. And I doubt it’d fool anybody. > The act is objectionable whatever you call it. Call it “Ordering a pizza with extra cheese” if you really want. It’s still a man sucking a baby’s penis as part of a religious ritual. I’m not sure what’s so difficult about this concept. Perform the circumcision. Engage in whatever bits of pomp and circumstance you’d care to. Keep the infant’s penis out of your mouth. > > I don’t really see how this is confusing. What’s your position on the sterile glass tube solution? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/209 "2012-09-06T02:17:21Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > But you could say, “putting oral suction on a circumcision to stop the bleeding.” . . . Is there a doctor in the house? Does applied suction work to stop bleeding? IANAD, but it seems to me this is the worst possible thing you could do. You should clean the cut and apply light pressure until the bleeding slows. Then bandage it. Suction? Bleeding? Doctor? ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/210 "2012-09-06T02:26:30Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Is there a doctor in the house? > > Does applied suction work to stop bleeding? IANAD, but it seems to me this is the worst possible thing you could do. You should clean the cut and apply light pressure until the bleeding slows. Then bandage it. > > Suction? Bleeding? Doctor? Dad always taught me that when I got a cut, I should squeeze it till it bleed–blood LEAVING the body forced debris and infection out of the wound. But this is folk advice, I am not a doctor. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/211 "2012-09-06T02:41:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What’s your position on the sterile glass tube solution? That, unless I misread or missed something, it’s a hypothetical that isn’t germane to the actual practice that’s currently under discussion. Did I miss a quote somewhere? It’s clear that you think it’s somehow important to the discussion, but I can’t seem to figure out why exactly. > [@Reyemile](#): > > an issue that’s really about hygiene and medicine It is about _neither_. It’s about a religious ritual. Please don’t be dishonest. (Honestly, hygiene and medicine? How many med schools do you think advise “oral suction by the doctor” as a treatment for minor wounds? How can you even type that with a straight face?) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/212 "2012-09-06T03:00:49Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > That, unless I misread or missed something, it’s a hypothetical that isn’t germane to the actual practice that’s currently under discussion . . . It seems to be a rather common practice. [Here is a cite](http://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/jblogs/ancient-metzitza-practice-followed-by-newer-custom-of-haredi-bashing/2012/06/09/0/?print), obviously relating to the story that inspired the OP. It’s about the middle of the article, and says that “The rest of Orthodoxy usually uses a sterile glass pipette or tube through which the mohel applies oral suction.” Again, to me, it seems like a perfectly workable compromise. (It also seems to me to be a damn silly one, but the First Amendment should protect it.) ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/213 "2012-09-06T03:02:46Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Please don’t be dishonest. (Honestly, hygiene and medicine? How many med schools do you think advise “oral suction by the doctor” as a treatment for minor wounds? How can you even type that with a straight face?) Of course they don’t recommend oral suction. Modern medicine prescribes more hygienic solutions. Thus, the issue with the mohels is one about medicine and hygiene. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/214 "2012-09-06T03:03:31Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It seems to be a rather common practice. [Here is a cite](http://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/jblogs/ancient-metzitza-practice-followed-by-newer-custom-of-haredi-bashing/2012/06/09/0/?print), obviously relating to the story that inspired the OP. It’s about the middle of the article, and says that “The rest of Orthodoxy usually uses a sterile glass pipette or tube through which the mohel applies oral suction.” > > Again, to me, it seems like a perfectly workable compromise. (It also seems to me to be a damn silly one, but the First Amendment should protect it.) Thanks. It’s weird, silly, creepy, and anachronistic… but doesn’t seem to carry a risk of disease transmission so it should be protected under the 1st amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/215 "2012-09-06T05:07:39Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > There’s no shame. Obviously. This is **Bricker** we’re talking about. He’s not going to feel shame for his behaviour until someone legislates otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/216 "2012-09-06T06:38:07Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Obviously. This is **Bricker** we’re talking about. He’s not going to feel shame for his behaviour until someone legislates otherwise. Seriously, I can’t count the number of times people have repeated the phrase “sucking baby dick” in this thread, and **BRICKER** should feel shame? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/217 "2012-09-06T11:39:43Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Thanks. It’s weird, silly, creepy, and anachronistic… but doesn’t seem to carry a risk of disease transmission so it should be protected under the 1st amendment. My question for was: is it also fair to describe it with all the quasi-pedo language that’s been used above? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/218 "2012-09-06T12:09:05Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > Seriously, I can’t count the number of times people have repeated the phrase “sucking baby dick” in this thread, and **BRICKER** should feel shame? Good point. Why should **Bricker** be ashamed about _your_ innumeracy? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/219 "2012-09-06T12:44:50Z")
And I’ll renew my question for all the chickenshits hiding behind the, “It’s technically accurate!” shield: while “suck” may indeed be a technically accurate phrase to use, what about “kiss?” How is this, even technically, a “kiss?” ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606/220 "2012-09-06T12:49:52Z")
I never thought I’d see a thread where **Bricker** is the one arguing _against_ the use of technical accuracy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orthodox-shitheads-defy-law-in-order-to-endanger-children/633606.md?page=12)